Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14th April 2017, 15:28
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 623
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Has anyone put together a list of German bomber pilots or crew based on number of missions completed? I have seen one of Russians .....

Also, on a forum I saw a contributor credit StG/SG ace Horst Kaubisch with 137 tank kills in a Stuka and/or FW190F. I haven't seen this anywhere else, so I ask, is it correct?

Thanks
Peter

Last edited by PMoz99; 15th April 2017 at 04:08.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th April 2017, 20:39
VtwinVince VtwinVince is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 750
VtwinVince is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Best book I've seen so far is Bruetting's 'Das Waren die Deutschen Kampfflieger-Asse' from way back, printed by Motorbuch-Verlag.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14th April 2017, 21:00
GrafWolf GrafWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 205
GrafWolf is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Hello gentlemen!

Yes-but there is only an entry to Oberleutnant Werner Kaupisch on page 120.
In January 1941 this pilot saved the crew from Hauptmann Kowalewski
out of the desert 270 km SE of Benghasi.

Herzliche Grüsse aus Oberschwaben,

Wolfgang
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th April 2017, 04:05
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 623
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Thanks.
Sorry if I misled re Kaubisch - he flew Ju87 and FW190F in StG77 and SG77 and SG1, not with any KG. I maybe should have put him in a separate post.
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th April 2017, 04:24
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 639
Tom Semenza
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

It is in fact Maj. Horst Kaubisch (Eichenlaub awarded 24.06.44). The 137 tanks destroyed from his time with III./St.G. 77 on the Russian front. Later KiA on 12.02.45 flying a FW 190. (From Obermaier's Die Ritterkreuztraeger der Luftwaffe, 1939-45, Band II.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th April 2017, 04:36
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 623
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Thank you Tom!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th April 2017, 09:59
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,193
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

We are confusing Kampfflieger with Schlachtflieger. What constitutes a bomber ace-missions flown, targets destroyed, tonnage of bombs dropped? Best books on bomber award recipients were the 2 listing RK winners likewise Obermaier's book on ground attack recipients
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th April 2017, 12:02
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 623
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Sorry Chris, I just badly framed my post in the first place, and I'm paying for it now.
The list I was looking for was regarding KG bombers. There is a StG/SG list available already.
The lists I've seen are usually sorted by number of missions flown. Not always the best way to "judge" whether one is an ace or not, but then many of the various decorations were handed out when one had flown a certain number of missions. Of course, there were always exceptions .......
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th April 2017, 17:57
G.R.Morrison G.R.Morrison is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NH, USA
Posts: 455
G.R.Morrison
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

While Brütting was good in its time, it has been surpassed by Jochen Kaiser's two-volume Die Ritterkreuzträger der Kampfflieger, Luftfahrtverlag-Start, ©2010, 2011

The dilemma of using a raw number of sorties is that the Luftwaffe counted a mission of greater than four hours differently than a briefer flight. Baumbach's just-under 100 becomes 147 when one calculates those Feindflüge that were between four and eight hours.

Hansgeorg Bätcher's 658 Feindflüge, with 45 of these of more than four hours results in a theoretical total of 703.

Thus, on page 241 of Kaiser's second volume are two listings, one, "Die meisten Feindflüge," the next, "Die meisten Frontflüge," but many are listed only as "500+" , or even, in Bermadinger's case, "466+"

Pages 242, 243 include listings of oldest and youngest, the first few dozen awarded during 1940, the last ones awarded from March 1945, and a breakdown by rank at the time of award.

If interested in the Kampfflieger, these books are absolutely worth investing in.
GRM
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16th April 2017, 08:04
Maxim1 Maxim1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 140
Maxim1 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.R.Morrison View Post
Thus, on page 241 of Kaiser's second volume are two listings, one, "Die meisten Feindflüge," the next, "Die meisten Frontflüge," but many are listed only as "500+" , or even, in Bermadinger's case, "466+"
Hello, G. R. Morrison.

What is the difference between Feindflüge and Frontflüge?

Regards,
Maksim
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
German night fighter top aces by NJG knusel Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 18 6th September 2023 15:41
German Night Fighters versus Bomber Command 1943 - 1945 Rudi Penker Books and Magazines 1 2nd June 2016 15:05
60 years after German KL Auchwitz-Birkenau Mirek Wawrzynski The Second World War in General 10 7th January 2008 16:20
German bomber belly lands on Noordwijk beach, May 3 1941 Dennis Peschier Allied and Soviet Air Forces 5 22nd October 2007 19:38
VVS divisions Mike35nj Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 7th August 2006 14:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net