Final fate of Hurricane P3203?

[Christer Bergström]

Is there anyone who has information on the final fate of Hurricane P3203?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hej Christer

It is not listed as lost in combat in any of my books.
Jim Halley has it as SOC on 30.9.1940 while belonging to No 79 Sq

Cheers
Stig

[Christer Bergström]

Due to "The Battle of Britain Then and Now. Mk. V", p. 392, Hptm. Bäss's He 111 (claimed to be of 10./KG 1, while in reality it was 5./KG 1) was rammed by the Hurricane P3203 flown by Pilot Officer E. J. Morris of 79 Squadron on 30 August 1940. I suspected that to be a mistake, since Morris was shot down on 31 August 1940. Or did he actually ram a He 111 on 30 August and then got shot down on 31 August? I have to check that at National Archive next month. Your reply gave me a good clue...

[Peter Cornwell]

Pilot Officer Morris of No.79 Squadron abandoned P3203 unhurt on 30 August 1940 and returned to duty. His aircraft P3877 was badly damaged by 109s in action over Biggin Hill on the following day & he returned to base wounded. A hectic 48 hours certainly, but not unusual & 'all in a days work' back in 1940.

Check out Blitz Vol.1 p272 for updated details.

[Jacek Kutzner]

P3203/79 Sqn
Damaged by return fire from He 111 and abendoned over Irish Sea, 29.09.40

J. J. Halley, Royal Air Force Aircraft P1000-R999, p. 28.

[Christer Bergström]

Thank you, all!

I guess I still have to check at Kew in June...

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Why have I got the name of P/O G.H. Nelson-Edwards 79 Sqdn linked to P3203 for the 29th Sept 40 ?

I have the following -

L1913 - 504 ?
P2677 - 253 - Sgt, Edgeley, inj.
P3203 - 79 - P/O. G.H.Nelson-Edwards
P5178 - 79 - NV-G - P/O P.F. Mayhew
P5177 - 79 - F/O G.F.B.Peters, +
V6621 - 253 - P/O R.C.Graves, inj
V7312 - 615 ?

And I have a 79 Sqdn loss for the 30th as P2759

Thanks if you can clarify for me

Alex

[Graham Boak]

You don't make clear the context of your list, but would be normal for an aircraft to fly more than once with different pilots on the same day.

[Peter Cornwell]

The main difficulty here is that the No.79 Squadron ORB provides no take-off & landing details for the entire period in question so information on aircraft serials has to be ‘reverse-engineered’ using alternative contemporary sources. One such being the excellent Air Britain series of aircraft serials by Halley, an invaluable source that I have consulted with confidence over the years. So why then did I chose to ignore it with regard the fate of P3203 when compiling the losses for BoBT&N ?

My own examination of the aircraft serial cards held by AHB showed P3203 as ‘struck off’ by No.79 Squadron on 30.9.40 but with a query attached to the entry, an identical entry also being made in respect of P2769. It seemed likely that both losses occurred during an engagement around 6.30pm the previous evening when No.79 Squadron lost three aircraft over the Irish Sea. However, the serial cards (confirmed by Halley) also showed P5177 & P5178 both lost on 29.9.40, the latter having forced-landed in Ireland. So we have four candidates for the three aircraft known to have been lost.

In April 1998 AHB confirmed in a letter to Martin Gleeson that the No.79 squadron losses on 29.9.40 were as follows:
P5178 flown by P/O Mayhew forced-landed in Ireland
P5177 flown by P/O Nelson-Edwards lost, pilot rescued
P2719 flown by F/O Peters missing believed killed

However, according to Halley, P2719 was lost on 28.8.40 so I suspect this serial is a simple transcription error and should read P2769 as already mentioned above.

Which brings us to P3203. According to my notes, when the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group investigated the 30.8.40 crash of the Hurricane down at Lodge Farm, South Holmwood, they provided serial P3203 as the aircraft concerned. From their enquiries I was told that it had been Morris’s regular aircraft for two months but I was also given the impression that something had been recovered to confirm this identity. This was subsequently denied by the (then) Tangmere Museum in another letter to Martin Gleeson in January 1998.

Unfortunately, ‘Neddy’ Nelson-Edwards had been unable to shed any further light on this dilemma when I contacted him back in the ‘80s. Nor others who have been contacted over the years. As of now, I stand by what I have published on the matter but would be very grateful to hear from anyone who can finally resolve this question beyond any further doubt.

‘Words are our only weapons against the lies of history.’

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo all,

I can add very little to what Peter has written about P3203. Except that serial numbers do not appear to have been recorded in the 79 Sqn. ORB for September 1940 at least. Also P3203 does not appear in logbook information for two 79 Sqn. pilots after 30 August 1940, supporting the view that this Hurricane was lost on this date.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.