Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17th August 2018, 14:56
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venlo - the Netherlands
Posts: 683
Marcel Hogenhuis
Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Hello

Trying to figure out which Ju88C-6's were with the Luftbeobachterstaffel 3 at Venlo, I came across an old thread about the alleged Ju88 crash near Nederweert (NL) which actually must have been downed near Niederwerth (Germany).

This particular Ju88 C-6 had Werkenummer 750461 but I can't check whether this is a genuine serial for this type nor its Stammkennzeichen… (where is that reference work ? )

Perhaps someone has the answer(s) ? Most appreciated !

Warm greetings from Venlo, the Netherlands, Marcel
__________________
airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project

Last edited by Marcel Hogenhuis; 18th August 2018 at 15:23. Reason: correction location name
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17th August 2018, 15:28
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,429
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

On 1 Dec 43, 2./ZG 1 lost a C-6 750418 on such a mission, crashing near Pesch
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17th August 2018, 17:59
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venlo - the Netherlands
Posts: 683
Marcel Hogenhuis
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Hello Chris,

Many thanks for your informative answer, the chance that 750461 was a genuine Werkenummer for a Ju88C-6 has increased significantly. The general picture about these interesting units becomes gradually better and better.

Best regards and again thank you ! Marcel
__________________
airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th August 2018, 23:13
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,095
John Manrho is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

There are loads of Wnr in that 750xxx range that are ALL C-6's.....so no doubt that Werknummer is valid and correct and that this is a Ju 88C-6. To the crash location......well.....we have no explanation for the Niederwerth/Holl. on the VLM....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th August 2018, 23:28
Rottler Rottler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ludwigshafen, Germany
Posts: 413
Rottler is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Hello Marcel,

here are some examples of Ju 88 C-6 losses and damages listed in the Gen.Qu. loss returns :

750345 5./NJG 3 13.12.43 100%
750371 4./NJG 3 13.12.43 30%
750377 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750379 II./NJG 2 10.12.43 40%
750400 II./NJG 2 26.11.43 20%
750401 6./NJG 2 16.12.43 100%
750413 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750435 4./NJG 3 13.12.43 100%
750437 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750455 I./NJG 2 26.11.43 100%
750460 5./NJG 2 20.12.43 100%
750462 II./NJG 2 3.12.43 100%
750471 I./NJG 3 16.12.43 50%
750591 7./ZG 1 21.12.43 35%
750592 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750630 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750701 I./NJG 2 16.12.43 100%
750820 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750906 I./NJG 3 2.12.43 30%
750928 I./NJG 2 4.12.43 100%
750929 I./NJG 2 13.12.43 100%
750932 I./NJG 2 16.12.43 45%
750957 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%

Regards
Leo
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18th August 2018, 15:21
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venlo - the Netherlands
Posts: 683
Marcel Hogenhuis
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Dear John, dear Leo,

Thank you both for the affirmative information about this Ju88 (Wnr.750461).
I have made databases with Werkenummer from Bf110, Do215, Me163, He219 and some other types but not the Ju88 so far, so I am quite a novice.

Leo's list shows another interesting detail: that 750460 and 750462 were on the inventory of the II./NJG 2, a unit of which is known to have delivered other aircraft to Luftbeobachterstaffel 3 too. There might have been a link as well between 750461 and II./NJG 2 as well.

Again many thanks for your valuable additions! Have a good weekend,

Marcel
__________________
airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18th August 2018, 15:28
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,921
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Yes, Ju 88 C-6 750461 is in genuine W.Nr. range, and apprently did survive this forced landing, later going to I/NJG 1 (or IV possibly)

Note, add space between Ju and 88 and C-6, per "RLM standard".
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/RLM_ai...gnation_system

Last edited by edNorth; 19th August 2018 at 21:20. Reason: Unit did not have C-6 in period.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18th August 2018, 15:39
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,095
John Manrho is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Marcel,

Still am interested why you believe this a/c did not crash near Nederweert. The indication on the VLM is clear with Holl. and if this a/c made a bellylanding near Niederwerth in Germany this wouold have been clearly explained on the VLM i.m.h.o. Furthermore, Luft.Beob.St 3 was stationed at Venlo which makes Nederweert more logical.....

J.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18th August 2018, 16:20
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,921
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Manrho View Post
There are loads of Wnr in that 750xxx range that are ALL C-6's.....so no doubt that Werknummer is valid and correct and that this is a Ju 88C-6. To the crash location......well.....we have no explanation for the Niederwerth/Holl. on the VLM....

Well, many in 750xxx and 751xxx were Ju 88 R-2 but I guess thats just for us others to know.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19th August 2018, 15:57
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venlo - the Netherlands
Posts: 683
Marcel Hogenhuis
Re: Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

Hello John,

I can assure you that I haven't made my mind up yet about the correct crash location of Niemann's Ju88:
1. I fully agree that the NVM info is a strong (and likely conclusive) source: 'Niederwerth' in combination with '/Holl.' is phonetically pointing to Nederweert/Holland.
2. Niemann's date/place of death is given as 1th March 1943 at Dormagen near Cologne, several days after his crash. Niemann could have been moved to a Luftwaffe hospital at Dormagen (there was actually a Reserve Luftwaffe Lazarett there), but when he was so badly wounded, then it would have been easier/faster to bring him to 'nearby' dutch hospitals.


I highly respect your expertise on Luftwaffe losses but I hope that you agree that the statement that a loss of a Venlo based unit is likely to be in the wider region around Venlo is not a convincing argument (:-). The Luftbeobachterstaffeln had to 'shadow' British and American bombers wherever they went, so a loss could occur far from the main operating airfield of a Luftbeob.Staffel. Even the I./NJG 1 lost nightfighters as far as Celle (H.D.Frank), Magdeburg (M.Meurer), Mulbjerg/Denmark (Guth) etc.

Do we have Dutch SGLO members in the area of Nederweert we could ask for help?

Warm greetings from Venlo, Marcel
__________________
airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sought: copy of article on Lt. Hahn's Ju88 in Luftwaffe im Focus nr. 20 Theo Boiten Wanted 0 25th January 2018 07:57
JU88 shot down in WW2 in Gulf of Taranto-Italy Franco Leo Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 7 1st April 2017 19:25
crash ofa JU88 belgian ardennes info sought philippe1 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 7 27th March 2012 18:17
Identity of He177 or Ju88 destroyed 24/2/44? Danny Hill Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 17th October 2008 20:32
VVS Top pilots: some tables from M.Bykov's book Evgeny Velichko Allied and Soviet Air Forces 18 30th March 2008 08:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net