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  #1  
Old 13th June 2009, 21:07
SALERNO1943 SALERNO1943 is offline
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Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

Here is a place near Salerno, south Italy, where we find a crash site of a Dornier 217. Airplane crashed in 16 september 1943. Some idea about parts and about crew of airplane? Thanks.

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9 detail: Ln 27164

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11 On a part: 8 Min 26511

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12a

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14a DORNIER 217 "Alfred Luscher, Fabrik elektrischer Accumulatoren und Apparate, Dresden"

15 13 mm

16 7,92 mm

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18 Ring with Benito Mussolini

19 Two of researchers
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  #2  
Old 13th June 2009, 22:53
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

Ulf Balkes KG100 book page 266 has crew of Ltn Helmut Ridder in Do217 E-5 6N+KN of 5/KG100 w.n. 5630 missing on 16-9-1943 with target Salerno. Ff Ltn Ridder missing, B Uffz Rudolf Goschl ( umlaut over o) missing, Bf Uffz Rolf Oeser missing and Bm Ogef. Hans Kein POW.
Looks like the target may have been HMS Valiant and the Dornier would have carried a PC 1400 X. According to the 'K' interrogation report the aircraft started from Istres area at 2130 hrs but failed to find its target, the bomb was jettisioned, and while flying north at a height of 5000 feet Dornier was shot down from behind by a Beaufighter. However the location of the crash is given as in the sea 50 miles West of Naples at 0130 hrs. perhaps it made it back to land.
There are further losses in the Salerno area on the 17th W.N 4575 and 5609 with crews rescued and on 17/18th w.n.5616 and 5626 missing. If any of these w.n's are found in your recovered pieces it would give a definite identity.

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 14th June 2009, 02:10
mjbollinger mjbollinger is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

A Do 217 E-5, such as represented by 6N+KN, was not equipped to carry the PC 1400X. Only the Do 217 K-2 and K-3 (at that time) had the necessary wing design and placement of the ETC 2000 bomb rack. On the Do 217 E-5 the bomb racks were outboard of the engines, perhaps to accomodate the wings of the Hs 293. On the Do 217 K-2 and K-3 the bomb racks were inboard of the engines, which was better for lateral stability.

Also, the wings of the K-2 and K-3 had been lengthened considerably to allow the aircraft to reach the altitudes necessary for effective use of the PC 1400X. The Do 217 E-5 could not reach those altitudes. The nose design was also significantly altered and the aircraft do look quite different.

6N+KN would have been equipped with the Hs 293.

A separate mission was flown by III./KG 100 that same day with the PC 1400X. This is the mission that almost destroyed HMS Warspite and slightly damaged HMS Valiant. It appears that none of those aircraft were lost.

I suspect we have found the wreckage of 6N+KN. Thanks for the photos!!

MB
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Old 14th June 2009, 18:46
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

Looking on the Luft. QM's list there is another possibilty on 15/16th Do217E-5 6N+HP wn 5552 was reported missing from the Salerno area. The Ff Ltn Horst Preisser, B Uffz Georg Hammerl and Bf Ogef Gunter (umlaut over u) are shown as missing but later shown as returned unwounded. The Bs Uffz Norbert Marek is shown as missing but according to the KG100 book following baling out he was captured,

Hope you solve the identity of this one,

Brian Bines
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Old 14th June 2009, 20:54
mjbollinger mjbollinger is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

This was the attack that led to the strike on SS James W. Marshall, with 63 killed.
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Old 14th June 2009, 22:19
RT RT is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

oF the crew of the KN one has been forced prisoner, location of the crash is seated 80 km west. Napoli, see AIR40-2414, it's interessant to note that they started with just one bomb...
56.. series is in the range of the E-5 type
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Old 16th June 2009, 18:20
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

Good night to all!
May I ask one question: Do you have any information about the crew + Squadron + aicraft ( I read it was a Beaufighter ) which claimed the Dornier Do 217? Was it from 600 Squadron; or 89 Squadron?
Thanks if you could point me the victor of this Do 217...
Adriano
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Old 19th June 2009, 17:02
SALERNO1943 SALERNO1943 is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bines View Post
Ulf Balkes KG100 book page 266 has crew of Ltn Helmut Ridder in Do217 E-5 6N+KN of 5/KG100 w.n. 5630 missing on 16-9-1943 with target Salerno. Ff Ltn Ridder missing, B Uffz Rudolf Goschl ( umlaut over o) missing, Bf Uffz Rolf Oeser missing and Bm Ogef. Hans Kein POW.
Looks like the target may have been HMS Valiant and the Dornier would have carried a PC 1400 X. According to the 'K' interrogation report the aircraft started from Istres area at 2130 hrs but failed to find its target, the bomb was jettisioned, and while flying north at a height of 5000 feet Dornier was shot down from behind by a Beaufighter. However the location of the crash is given as in the sea 50 miles West of Naples at 0130 hrs. perhaps it made it back to land.
There are further losses in the Salerno area on the 17th W.N 4575 and 5609 with crews rescued and on 17/18th w.n.5616 and 5626 missing. If any of these w.n's are found in your recovered pieces it would give a definite identity.

Regards

Brian Bines
Many thanks for your precious informations. We also find a part of fuselage with painted numbers: 1577 do you know if this numbers can referr to someone of aircraft you stated? Where was locate airport of KG100? Many thanks again.
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Old 19th June 2009, 17:29
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

There is another Do217K-2 lost with w.n. 4577, two crewmen were missing and two returned wounded but the date of this is the 13th. Sept. Is the number definitely 1577 ?
I believe II/KG100 were based at Istres and III/100 at Istres but also using Foggia in Sept 1943 but this is not definite.
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Old 19th June 2009, 17:39
mjbollinger mjbollinger is offline
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Re: Dornier 217 crashed in Salerno 16 sept. 1943

It is clear that aircraft from II./KG 100 and III./KG 100 were operating from Foggia during the missions over Salerno. In fact, some never left. According to contemporary British intelligence reports, seven Do 217 K-2 aircraft of III./KG 100 were left behind: 6N+BW(Wk.Nr. 4550), 6N+KR (Wk.Nr. 4560), 6N+HT (Wk.Nr. 4517) and an aircraft with uncertain markings (Wk.Nr. 4564), 6N+BT (Wk.Nr. 4535), 6N+RT (Wk.Nr. 4571), and 6N+CT (Wk.Nr. 4557). In addition, two Do 217 E-5 aircraft were abandoned: 6N+KP (Wk.Nr. unknown) and 6N+GP (Wk.Nr. 5615). Interesting, none of these aircraft are even mentioned in Balke’s appendix on KG 100 aircraft losses. They are probably all victims of the air raid on Foggia on 19 September, or perhaps one of two earlier raids.
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