Luftwaffe Loss ...a P38 Lightning

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Just checked the Lerche book and ref he never got to fly a P38. But he did note that around the time he flew the SM91 he never got the chance to fly the Luftwaffe's captured example of the P38 Lightning as it had crashed.

Question 1
Anyone got details of this crash , such as date,( around October 1943?) place, name of pilot, his fate, (did he survive the crash?)?

From AVIONS no: 72 page 8/9 has if my understanding is correct.
There were two (2) P38's coded as T9+MK.The second T9+MK was 44-23725.

Question 2
What was the first T9+MK' serial number ?

Another P38 was coded T9+XB , this was 42-68274.
Question 3
Was this the ex Italian a/c used by Tondi ?

Thanks

Alex

[shooshoobaby]

Pictures of the first P - 38 from Italy show code T9 XB. This aircraft was apparently never flown after ferry flight due to engine damage from low octane fuel.The Mosquito that was captured also was coded T9 XB - from pictures.
P - 38 F5E - flown by AAF Lt. Martin Monti was T9 MK #4423725. Recovered at end of War.
no record of P - 38 crash. There were only these 2 P - 38s listed as captured
Pilot Oblt. Leo Potjans Killed in crash of P - 51B T9 HK Dec.10,44
Pilot Fw. Herbert Gold killed in crash of Hawker Typhoon T9 GK July 28,44

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Thanks for reply.

Here is the problem, re the P38 crash , Lerche mentions this on page 47 of his book Luftwaffe Test Pilot.

The other problem is that F5 42-68274 belonged to the 6th Recce Group in the Pasific and was lost (MACR 9803) on the 24/10/44. so no way could she be T9+XB captured in 1943 in Europe. Nore could it be that used by the Italian's.

Alex

[shooshoobaby]

Alex - In the famous photo of the F5E, taken when it was found at Schwangau at the end of the War , 357th FG pilot Roland Wright is standing on the Stabilizer. He noted that the nose gear had collapsed.
Could this be the " crash " mentioned ?

[marsyao]

Actually This Lighting was lost on Oct 13 1944, a certain USAAF Second Lieutenant Martin James Monti defected to German with this aircraft, more detail info could be found at :

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...8686&highlight=

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Not the Monti one.

Much too late.

T9+XB was also not the same mark .

Italian captured P38 taken on 12th June 1943.

But i think that there must have been one captured much earlier than that one.

Ist FG Pilot reported to have been shot down by a german P38 on 30th March 1943.

If T9+XB was the Italian a/c then when did it get sent to Rechlin ? Was it there for the September 1943 Air show ?

If it was then when were the Luftwaffe markings applied ?

Alex

[shooshoobaby]

Alex - Been reading comments on the P - 38 pictured in Italy.
In the book " On Special Missions , LW Research and Special Missions Squadrons." by Smith , Creek , Petrick- there is a color photo of P - 38
T9 XB taken at Rechlin along with photos of other Allied A/C 9-19- 43.
The photo caption says " most likely from 14th AF, landed on German AF.
Flown to Berlin by FW. Heinz Girnth JG 53
Note - photo of Mosquito at Rechlin shows code T9 XB.
Many photos Of the F5E during LW service and at Schwangau AF, 1945 as stated earlier.
cheers

[brewerjerry]

Hi Alex,
your post gave me the chance to turn out an old book,
strangers in a strange land has a photo of T9+XB, with the comment

' the lightning was later used in an airshow put on at rechlin during late 1943 '

also of interest maybe ? but O/T,

' a F4U-1 corsair was on luftwaffe strength reports for august & september 1944 '

Cheers
Jerry

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Thank you Shoo ShooBabe and Jerry,

Had not looked at "Strangers" text on this for a while. just goes to show that cannot always rely on memory. Its the text to the colour photo on page 44. Thanks Jerry.

Shoo', the book you mention is one that I do not have sorry to say.
14th Air Force (India/China/Burma) ?

Thanks again

Alex

[Alex Smart]

FW. Heinz Girnth JG 53

'Shoo,

What do you have on this pilot if anything ?

Alex