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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #31  
Old 20th July 2017, 13:19
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Hello Kirill,

thanks for these explanations.
Considering problem 2: would you say that Aleksandr Yakovlev had more personal political influence than the MiG guys ?

Michael
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  #32  
Old 20th July 2017, 19:04
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Considering problem 2: would you say that Aleksandr Yakovlev had more personal political influence than the MiG guys ?
Yes.
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  #33  
Old 21st July 2017, 03:24
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
...But it reveals that this plane wasn't liked the the Soviet pilots.
It's odd that such a beautiful plane is so insufficient. What was the problem, technically ? A bad engine ? A bad aerodynamic design ?
The original MiG-1 had an open canopy. Some were fitted with a closed canopy that opened to the side similar to the Bf 109. The model had longitudinal stability problems and control response was considered poor. Flying above 5000 m with an open cockpit must have been harsh.


The MiG-3 had the sliding glazed canopy and the upper fuselage had longer glazed panels to improve rear vision for the pilot. It was Stalin who ordered his aircraft designers to give him a fighter with a 1000km range similar to the Spitfire, hence the additional fuel tank under the pilot seat which also gave the plane a better center of gravity. The longitudinal stability problem was aided by this and the movement of the engine 9.5 cm forward. The VISh-22 variable pitch three blade propeller was replaced by the VISH-61 Sh variable pitch three blade propeller and yes, larger tires on the landing gear. Both models had a high landing speed and the under carriage was weekly designed as a result the under carriage collapsed on average every 25 landings.


There were 31 MiG-1 in Baltic Military District apparently all were assigned to the 31st IAP and based at Kovno and Karmelava. They were all either destroyed or abandoned on 22 June. Western Military District had 37 MiG-1 all of which were with the 41st IAP. All were either destroyed or (mostly) abandoned on 22 June. In Odessa Military District there were 8 MiG-1 with the 146th IAP. These survived the first days of the war, their ultimate fate is unknown to me. This is where best to look for Soviet aces flying MiG-1 mostly like scoring against the Romanian Air Force.


If the MiG-1 was disliked it was because it was difficult to fly. During the period just before the war the MiG-1 was probably neglected and left to the side of the airfield with the belief it would soon be replaced by the MiG-3 as was the case for many of the older models of fighters (I-15, older I-16 etc...)



Regards
oquaig

Last edited by oquaig; 21st July 2017 at 07:41.
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  #34  
Old 21st July 2017, 12:25
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Good morning oquaig,

thanks for the technical explanations.
I know the following 146. IAP aces: Buyanov, Khlud, Lobov, Novoselov, Peskov, Vorozheikin. Mr. Abramov's website indicates that none of them scored in the MiG-1.
There's also a guy named Alexandr Koss but I do not know what he flew.

Cheers,

Michael
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  #35  
Old 28th July 2017, 10:13
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oquaig oquaig is offline
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Hi Knusel,

Just a slight update: It turns out that only 6 MiG-1 were with 146 IAP, the other two were with 55 IAP one of which was lost in a landing accident on 22 June 1941 (failure of landing struts). Just trying to be accurate.

Best wishes
oquaig
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  #36  
Old 29th July 2017, 05:39
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Good evening oquaig,

55. IAP was Pokryshkin's unit who according to Khazanov & Medved scored a total of 5+0sh kills in the MiG-3. But this is inaccurate, isn't it ?

Cheers,

Michael
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  #37  
Old 29th July 2017, 12:19
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good evening oquaig,

55. IAP was Pokryshkin's unit who according to Khazanov & Medved scored a total of 5+0sh kills in the MiG-3. But this is inaccurate, isn't it ?

Cheers,

Michael
For what period of time ? The question for Khazanov & Medved is their sources: some of them are good, others not so good. I find Khazanov useful but I always track down his sources and review them. Some of these sources come from Prien and some from TsAMO. Others can be dismissed as "Soviet Opera".

Best wishes
oquaig
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  #38  
Old 2nd August 2017, 21:06
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Good evening oquaig,

according to Mr Abramov's website
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/p/pokryshk.htm
Pokryshkin flew the MiG-3 until summer'42.
He scored at least 3,5 [3+1sh] and at most 8 [6+4sh] kills in that type.
Can we narrow the gap somehow ?

Cheers,

Michael
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  #39  
Old 4th August 2017, 03:09
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good evening oquaig,

according to Mr Abramov's website
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/p/pokryshk.htm
Pokryshkin flew the MiG-3 until summer'42.
He scored at least 3,5 [3+1sh] and at most 8 [6+4sh] kills in that type.
Can we narrow the gap somehow ?

Cheers,

Michael
Actually Abramov's site only shows four claims for Pokryshkin in the MIG-3 ( 2Me 109s, 1 PLZ, 1 Hs126). You might have a look at Denes Bernad's book "From Barbarossa to Odessa" for claims. It contains detailed account of air actions thru to October 1941.

Khazanov & Medved book on the MiG-3 is not foot noted so it is hard to track down their claims but they did list their sources:
ЦАМО РФ, ф. 35, ф. 208. ф. 221. ф. 246, ф. 319. ф. 20045, ф. 20064. ф. 202256. ф. 20425, ф. 20530,
ф 60676, ф НИИ ВВС, ф. 2-го гв. илп, ф 5-го гв, кап, 11-го гв нал, ф. 31-го пап, ф. 34-го пап,
ф. 41-го паи, ф. 115-го гв. иди, ф. 122-го иап.ф. 148-го идп, ф. 263 го идп
BA/MA RL 2 111/1177, 2 111/1178. »Flugzeugunfaelle und Verluste den (fliegende) Verbaenden»

best wishes
oquaig

Last edited by oquaig; 4th August 2017 at 05:06.
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  #40  
Old 5th August 2017, 16:01
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Re: any MiG-1 aces

Hello oquaig,

as far as I can understand Mr. Abramov's website with my limited Russian skills the Pokryshkin page acknowledges 46+6sh kills of which 43+3sh are given in the list. This leaves 3+3sh kills open to further search, doesn't it ?

Cheers,

Michael
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