Loss info on the follwoing planes

[Nikita Egorov]

Gentlemen,

how are they reported in GQ:

Ju-87D-3 w.n. 2615, Ju-87R-2 w.n. 6160

Bf-109E w.n. 824, 943, 3383, 5339, 6047.

TIA

[Jim P.]

Here's what I have:

Ju 87D-3, 2615, n.n., , , II., St.G. 1, , , , , 02-Aug-42, Flak. Bf WIA., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.10, , PlQu. 30 76, 50%, F, Bf Fw. Otto Wolf, ,
Bf 109E-7, 0824, n.n., , I., Stab I., Schl.G. 1, , , , , 15-Aug-42, Bauchlandung due to undercarriage damage., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , Fl.Pl. Tusow, 30%, F, , ,
Bf 109E, 0943, n.n., , I., 2., Schl.G. 1, , , , , 27-Aug-42, Bruchlandung due to pilot error., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , Fl.Pl. Tusow, 70%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-1, 3383, Reserve, , , 3.(J), LG 2, gelbe, 15 +, , , 20-Mar-40, Bestandsliste from this date., , Lfl.2/Sitzkrieg, LW im Focus #2, p.2, , Fl.Pl. Neumünster, -, F, , ,

Little problem here:

Bf 109E-7, 5339, n.n., , , 3., Schl.G. 1, , , , , 12-Aug-42, Bauchlandung due to engine trouble., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , Tusow, 75%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-4, 5339, Loidolt, Oblt. Johannes, , , 3., JG 3, , , , , 31-Aug-40, POW after Luftkampf with RAF fighters. FSA., , Lfl.2/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.1, p.191; Prien/Stemmer, Stab und I./JG 3, p.521; Mason, p.332; BoB, T&N, p.609, , Whalebone Lane gunsite, Chadwell Heath, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-4, 6047, n.n., , I., 1., JG 77, , , , , 13-Jun-41, Notlandung due to engine trouble., , Lfl.5/Finnland, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VI.2, p.431; Valtonen, LW Pohjoinen Sivusta, p.355, , bei Kirkenes, 50%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 6047, n.n., , III., 8., Schl.G. 1, , , , , 22-Aug-42, Undercarriage damage during take-off., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , Tusow, 60%, F, , ,

[Nikita Egorov]

Excellent, Jim! Thanks very much!

As regards to 5339 you can underline in you database that Bf-109's w.n. lost with Loidolt is wrong. It was found more than two years after in Russia. The second lost entry on it coincides in place and date.

[RT]

Nd the right one is ???

Remi

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by RT

Nd the right one is ???

Remi

That's more or less what I was ready to ask for! Thank you Rémi.
But your message is too short. so let me explain what I understood - just to show I understood NOTHING!

Strange that the Loidolt loss is wrong; no way to check it in english reports?
The Sch.G 1 is wrong too: if the russians got it at the right place (Tüsow) how the guy was able to write 75% ? But it's not contradictory: we can imagine the plane was declared 75% damaged and left behind after. I.e. the russian found has nothing to do with the loss.

effectively: "The right one is?" and, last, Nikita comment turns to be the too short one.

Am I clear?

Tschüss, Franck.

[Nikita Egorov]

Franck and Remi,

Let me explain. I'am working with reports on downed and captured German planes found in the Stalingrad sector after the battle. W.n. 5339 as others listed in this post, were found in special train at Tschir station and inspected in April 1943.
All those planes were damaged to various degrees mostly in August 1942 according to GQ. All were collected for sending to Germany for repair facilities and because of the encirclement this train was captured.

So, it is logical to presume that if the plane was found in Russia and lost in August 1942 it could not have been lost in August 1940 in the battle of Britain.

Info for this plane given in inspection report is: Bf-109E w.n. 5339 (Wiener Neustadt 1940) markings yel. V + triangle. Engine DB601A1 (30109).

[ouidjat]

Thank you very much Nikita,

Like that it's clear and it's confirming the given loss rate (I mean no condradiction with the facts you are detailling).
That is: The plane was down with 75% damage; get back and loaded on train to be send for repairs; but wasn't, and russian troops found it like you explained.

Hence, Loidolt loss wasn't done on 5339.

Thanks again and best regards,

Franck.

[RT]

The english report don't gave any Wn unf.

Rémi

[Jim P.]

I knew I was putting a dup WNr. out there with 5339. Listed in Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.1, p.191 as such for Loidolt. One was obviously wrong and Nikita has answered that question. While not pertinent to Nikita's inquiry, the next question is, what was the WNr. of the Loidolt machine? Possibly WNr. 3539? That one is totally missing from my data.