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Old 17th August 2006, 17:11
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445BombGroup 445BombGroup is offline
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Smile Rocket anti-aircraft fire

Greetings:

In going through some of the post mission reports, I've run across references to ground-to-air rockets being fired against bomber formations. On one mission near Orly, France, a B-24 was hit by a rocket and completely destroyed. The crew reporting the incident said they saw a smoky trail leading from the ground up to the bomber just before it exploded.

I was wondering what types of rockets these would be; did they have any sort of guidance system, or where they free flight? I know of an add-on field modification to the Fw-190 to carry 2 8,0cm rockets for air-to-air use.

Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.
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Old 17th August 2006, 17:47
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

Have a look at this link Holzbrau-Kissing Enzian
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Old 4th February 2020, 05:28
Edward L. Hsiao Edward L. Hsiao is offline
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Lightbulb Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

That's a pretty interesting topic.

Edward L. Hsiao
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Old 4th February 2020, 17:09
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

The rocket in question was referred to as a "baby V-2" by pilots. This description most closely matches the Wasserfall which was designed for this role. It was radio controlled by an operator on the ground. I will post a reference later.

Last edited by edwest2; 5th February 2020 at 00:49.
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Old 4th February 2020, 17:24
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by 445BombGroup View Post
I was wondering what types of rockets these would be; did they have any sort of guidance system, or where they free flight? I know of an add-on field modification to the Fw-190 to carry 2 8,0cm rockets for air-to-air use.
Hello Michael,

I would suggest this was a mistaken observation. No German surface-to-air rockets were ever used in combat, as far as I understand.

The primary German air-to-air rocket was the 21,0 cm BR 21, see warbirds-blog.cz/?p=3219

A much more advanced rocket was used in small numbers by Me 262s. This was the Rheinmetall-Borsig R 4/M 'Orkan', see luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/flugkorper/r4m.htm

Regards,

Dan
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:04
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

The US Office of War Information had told the American media to be cautious about publishing certain things. But for things that were actually seen and reported, that was a different matter.


New York Times, December 5, 1944


ROCKETS IN REICH DEFENSE

U.S. Bomber Crews See 'Lots' of Them, Also Nazi Jet Planes


LONDON, Dec. 4 (AP) -- The Nazis shot "baby V-2s" or anti-aircraft rockets at formations of American Flying Fortresses that attacked Mainz, one of the German rail cities pounded by the Allied air fleets today.

"We got a lot more rockets than we usually do," said Lieut. Robert Dams of Milwaukee, a bombardier.

"The flak was light, but the Nazis mingled it with rockets which left heavy trails of bluish white smoke," related Lieut. David Barnett of Bromley, Ky, a navigator.

Several Nazi jet-propelled planes were spotted in the Bebra area, east of Cologne.

"We saw a Messerschmitt 262 jet job, but as soon as three Mustangs and Thunderbolts appeared it disappeared straight into the sun," said Sgt. Joseph Grunen of Detroit, a Liberator nose gunner.
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Old 5th February 2020, 21:40
Revi16 Revi16 is offline
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

Surface to Air
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:12
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGD51szssYk
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Old 6th February 2020, 10:58
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

People see what they are told they will see. There are reports from RAF gunners of attacks by Me163s - anything less likely than an night attack by Me163s is difficult to conceive. There are many reports from the Mediterranean (and maybe elsewhere) of attacks by long-nose Fw190s, long before the D actually saw service. The He113s in the Battle of Britain are perhaps a more famous example. Plus the "scarecrows" seen by night bombers. Or master searchlights being bluer than the others. If the intelligence officers were warning crews to look out for rocket attacks than it isn't surprising that crews reported seeing them. That they actually happened in any organised fashion is exceedingly unlikely to have escaped notice in German documents. Or indeed evidence found on the ground in the occupied land.

I wouldn't rule out crews seeing individual examples, either of trials or perhaps operators seizing the chance of a live firing should a bomber formation pass near.
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Old 6th February 2020, 15:29
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Rocket anti-aircraft fire

This subject, the late war employment of anti-aircraft rockets over the Reich, is well-covered in this book:

Griehl, Manfred. Last Days of the Luftwaffe: German Luftwaffe Combat Units 1944-1945. Barnsley (Yorkshire): Frontline Books, 2009. ISBN: 978-1-84832-511-1. Hb. Dj. 262p. Heavily illus. Dwgs. Index.

The author pawed his way through all of the German design, experimentation, manufacturing and employment documents to arrive at a rather definitive picture of developments by the end of the war.

L.
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