JG 301 and JG 302 losses on the night of 8/9th October 1943 - Hannover

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Good night,

I would like to obtain some help to cross-check some single-engined night fighter losses on the night of 08/09th October 1943. The RAF target was Hannover. There are several single claims submitted by JG 300, JG 301 and JG 302 airmen ( including by Hptm Müller )

I am checking a probable Luftwaffe loss due to an air collision between a Lancaster and a single-engined fighter. ( I particularly believe the crew "thought" they collided, however they may have been hit by enemy fire ).

Thanks in advance for any machine / werknummer / pilot name and other details ( if available ).

Adriano

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Adriano

These were the claims submitted by the pilots of JG 300 and JG 301:

Feldwebel Kurt Emler (4) of 7./JG 300 a Stirling at 1:17 20 kilometers southeast of Bremen. This was probably Stirling III (BK655) of 90 Sqn, RAF.
Leutnant Kummer (1) of Stab II./JG 301 a Lancaster at 1:24 five kilometers northwest of Hannover. This was probably Lancaster III (DV239) "QR-V" of 61 Sqn, RAF flown by P/O R Coulson, all killed.
Oberleutnant Karl-Heinz Seeler (2) of 1./JG 301 a Halifax at 1:27 two kilometers north of Bremen.
Hauptmann Friedrich-Karl Müller (18) of Stab/JG 300 a Halifax at 1:29 northwest of Hannover. This was probably Halifax V (LK900) "ZL-D" of 427 Sqn, RAF flown by Sgt FJ Kelly, all killed.
Feldwebel Kurt Emler (5) of 7./JG 300 a Stirling at 1:32 north of Hannover.
Leutnant Otto Brüning (3) of 1./JG 300 a Viermot at 1:43 west of Hannover.
Leutnant Werner Treusch (3) of 6./JG 300 a Lancaster at 1:48 southwest of Hannover. This was Lancaster III (JA706) "MG-C" of 7 Sqn, RAF flown by W/O Hartstein, 4 killed, 3 POW.

There were no losses suffered of the aircraft borrowed by the single-engined night fighter units from JG 1 and JG 11 on that date.

Horrido!

Leo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Balss Book about Nachjadg losses, vol 2 (Materialverluste) has two losses for 8 or 9 October 1943 of single-engined fighters:

8 Oktober 1943
I/JG 300
Flugplatz Bonn-Hangelar
Feindflug: ja
Bf 109 G-6 WNr 27022
Pilot unverletzt
Bedienungsfehler bei Landung. Schaden 40 %

8-9 Oktober 1943
Stab JG 301
Flugplatz München-Riem
Feindflug: ja
Fw 190 A-6 WNr 539354
Oblt Friedrich Amsink verwundet
Überschlag bei Landung. Schaden 40%

So two aircraft damaged in accidents according to the above.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Leo and Laurent,

Many thanks ( Merci beaucoup ) for the above information.
I am checking the account of a crew of 467 RAAF Squadron aboard the Lancaster Mark III serial JA902, who had the front turret removed by what they "tought" was a frontal collision with a Fw 190 ( it was reported as that on the ORB ), North of Hannover. That's why I asked about single-engined night-fighters losses on that particular night.
The RAF crew managed to return safely to base, tough.
Thanks again for the information. May I ask you IF you do have any twin-engined 100% loss for that night? Maybe they collided with another aircraft, rather the reported Fw 190...
Thanks again
Adriano Baumgartner

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Adriano

I found these total losses listed in the QM 6 for the nights of 8 and 9 October 1943. Please note that the source is at times difficult to read and the date of the fourth entry may be suspect. Hopefully some one else can correct any errors or omissions.

8 October 1943: Bf 110 E-2 (W.Nr. 2430) of 7./NJG 3 flown by Feldwebel Walter Plath (F) wounded, Bordfunker unharmed, location unknown, 100%

8 October 1943: Bf 110 G-4 (W.Nr. 740 040) of 12./NJG 1 flown by Leutnant Werner Müller (F), Unteroffizier Cornelius Klässen (Bf) and Unteroffizier Gottfried Vogel, all killed, crashed at Willingen/Sauerland, 100%

9 October 1943: Ju 88 C-6 "R4 + MP" (W.Nr. 750 478) of II./NJG 2 flown by Leutnant Ernst Gross (F), Unteroffizier Fritz Dreesen (Bf) and Unteroffizier Julius Burow (Bm), all killed, lost due to unknown causes at unknown location, 100%

9 October 1943: Ju 88 C-6 (W.Nr. 750 378) of II./NJG 3, crew unharmed, crashed following aerial combat near Husum, 100%

9 October 1943: Ju 88 C-6 (W.Nr. 750 498) of IV./NJG 3 flown by Unteroffizier Hermann Ermer (F) and Gefreiter Mathias Benick (Bm) both killed, Bordfunker unharmed, crashed following aerial combat at Esbjerg-Bramind, 100%

9 October 1943: Bf 110 G-4 "R4 + AD" (W.Nr. 5668) of 8./NJG 2 flown by Leutnant Heinz Knittel (F) and Unteroffizier Christian Klapper (Bf), pilot killed, Bordfunker missing, crashed in sea following aerial combat near Helgoland, 100%

9 October 1943: Ju 88 C-6 (W.Nr. 750 442) of 10./NJG 3 flown by Obergefreiter Oswald, wounded, other crew unharmed, crashed at Aalborg, 90%

I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Michael Balss vol 2 has the following losses to add to Leo list

8-9/Oct/43:
Stab IV./NJG 1
Cloppenburg
Feindflug: ja
He 219 A-1 WNr 2309 G9+AE
pilot unverletzt
Ofw Rudolf Müller gefallen
Luftkampf

8-9/Oct/43:
Ju 88 C-6 WNr 750478- idem that in Leo's list, but loss place listed as Hannover, and cause as 'Absturz, vermutlich Luftkampf'

I believe that the four last losses in Leo's list were suffered in air battle against the 8th Air Force in daylight. See http://www.flensted.eu.com/g194300.shtml for some details.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Laurent and Leo,

I again do thank both of you for the most valuable help and information. I will put the page in question from the 467 RAAF Squadron´s ORB.
I do "guess" the Lancaster crew misjudged the identity of the Luftwaffe colliding aircraft; which was probably a twin-engined aircraft.
Yours
Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Laurent and Leo,

Enclosed the mentioned sample of the ORB, where the Lancaster crew mentioned a colision with a Fw 190.

LAURENT: I noticed on the site you enclosed on your last post that there was an accident ( while landing at night near Aalborg West ) of an Arado Ar 196. This machine took off for a combat mission. Could it have been in action against the Bomber Command machines that night?

Thanks again to both of you for your inputs and very useful links and information. It helped a lot!

Yours
Adriano