Erich Hartmann's Bf109K

[Jim P.]

Without documentary evidence everyone is just guessing about the K-4 based on some statement from Toliver/Constable, which is, quite frankly, not only dated, but very inaccurate as proven by time. Time has not been kind to this source. However, like with many, it was this book that really got me interested in the Jagdflieger.

But now, having had access to many logbooks, along with loss reports from original documents and published sources, the true picture becomes more evident.

Mostly aircraft re-equipment/updates were per unit, not pilot. It's not even a case of 'the pilot didn't want to switch', but was the type even available? Given the state of German aircraft production in the late stages of the war, limited units got the K-4. (Actually, from losses, the same can be said per type to some extent throughout the war – at least from a time standpoint.) Per losses, a few K-4s do show up for JG 52, but certainly not as a wholesale replacement for the unit.

How these types got apportioned to the unit would more likely be as replacements for lost aircraft vs pilot preference. While it's entirely plausible that Hartmann may have had a K-4, given the fact that the type does show up in losses for the unit, without documentary evidence such as a photo or Flugbuch entry , you're just kinda guessing based on a questionable source.

The last type that we have photographic evidence of for Hartmann is a Bf 109G-10. A number of machines of this type show up as surrendered aircraft at a couple of airfields at the end of the war. Along with a couple of K-4 Stabs machines that show up in Czechoslovakia (?), this is the closest thing that I’ve seen documenting the K-4 with JG 52. And Hartmann.

[knusel]

Dear Gentlemen,

these are very intresting considerations.
Is it known when the Hartmann-Bf109G10 photo was taken ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by knusel

Dear Gentlemen,

these are very intresting considerations.
Is it known when the Hartmann-Bf109G10 photo was taken ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Michael,

The well-known photo of Hartmann in the camouflage jacket standing in front of the Bf109G-10 is typically captioned as being taken just after his 350th victory on the 17th April, 1945.
I hope that helps you somewhat.

Nick

[knusel]

...this helps a lot. Thank you very much.

All the best to you,

Michael

[Nick Hector]

Michael,

Anytime.

[knusel]

Dear Gentlemen,

thanks for your contributions to that intresting thead. I'm admiring your expert knowledge and agree with the notion that the availability of a new 109 type doesn't necessarily mean that he flew it. We know that he even rejected the proposal of a transfer to a Me 262 unit.
For the sake of completeness allow me to add to items from older sources:
- Toliver/Constable report that the planes Hartmann flew operationally were the "G7, G10, G14, H16[sic], K4". Of course there was no "H16" and even the existence of the possible printing mistake G16 is dubious. Furthermore, the G6 which he certainly flew is omitted!
-Musciano features a profile of a G14 adorned with 352 victories on the rudder. Such a scoreboard may have never existed but we can assume Musciano deemed the G14 Hartmann's last plane.

Apart from this, I think these two old books are still worthwhile reading because of the very lively and enjoyable narrative style.

I wish you a good start into a successful new week,

Michael

[gaupe75]

I'm pretty sure that there is something special to the G6 with C3 triangles on it, it is just not a regular plane.

[Denniss]

probably a G-6 with early MW50 system which first used C3, B4 was tested and cleared for use later.

[knusel]

Can you tell me what "C3 triangles" are ?

[gaupe75]

Originally Posted by knusel

Can you tell me what "C3 triangles" are ?

C3 and B4 is the fuel type, C3 is 100 oktan and B4 is 87 oktan. B4 was more often marked with 87, instead of B4.