Mystery Attack on 35 SQN Halifax by Bf 109F 17 August 1943

[Tim O.]

Hi all

I have a combat record filed by the crew of Halifax HR862 TL-X of 35 Squadron RAF. In bright moonlight the gunners identified an attacking fighter very precisely as a 'Bf 109F'. The attack took place six miles SSW of Turin at around 02:00 on 17 August 1943, as the bomber commenced its return flight after bombing Turin.

The gunners of the Halifax claimed the fighter damaged, as it dived away and was not seen again. The Halifax received some cannon damage to the tail and fins but no crew were injured.

Can anyone suggest a potential German attacker? I have not been able to find anything in my available references.

Thanks for any help.

[MW Giles]

JG2 was active on 16/17.08.43 over N France for outbound and returning bombers

Over Italy I believe the claimants will be Italian, The 35 Sqn claim for an Me109F only means that they saw a single engined fighter

There were two claims that night by the three Re2001 fighters scrambled at 00:48 hrs by 232 Sq, 59 Gr Int

Serg. M G Tonini claimed a 4 eng bomber near Milan
Ten. C Balli claimed a Halifax at Pont Carvese

Regards

Martin

[Tim O.]

Thank you very much Martin.

Following up on these Italian claims, I think they seem a more likely aggressor than a BF 109. It seems that the Italian claims were recorded just north of Turin and 35 km north of Turin. This 35 SQN crew say they were SSW of Turin when they were attacked but I realise that many of these types of records conflict. The British crew mention 'red tracer', does this tell us anything about the possible nationality of the fighter? I gather the RE 2001 was armed with cannon so could have caused the damage seen on HR862 TL-X once it returned.

I note that Halifax HR880 TL-K of 35 SQN was indeed shot down this night (although some Italian records show it as a B-24 Liberator?). Four of the crew were recovered from the wreckage and three were identified, confirming the crashed aircraft was HR880.

Like many of these incidents, I suspect we may never get to a definitive answer.

Thanks for the help.

[Chris Goss]

2./JG 2 was active at night 15-16 Aug 43 and 16-17 Aug 43, the latter night claiming 2 aircraft but in the Chartres/Seine Estuary area. As Martin says and no doubt so will Theo, no such claims by the Luftwaffe anywhere near Italy

[Tim O.]

Thanks Chris.

It looks like this was an Italian fighter but I am not sure we will ever know all the details.

[Juha]

Originally Posted by Tim O.

Thank you very much Martin.

Following up on these Italian claims, I think they seem a more likely aggressor than a BF 109. It seems that the Italian claims were recorded just north of Turin and 35 km north of Turin. This 35 SQN crew say they were SSW of Turin when they were attacked but I realise that many of these types of records conflict. The British crew mention 'red tracer', does this tell us anything about the possible nationality of the fighter? I gather the RE 2001 was armed with cannon so could have caused the damage seen on HR862 TL-X once it returned.

I note that Halifax HR880 TL-K of 35 SQN was indeed shot down this night (although some Italian records show it as a B-24 Liberator?). Four of the crew were recovered from the wreckage and three were identified, confirming the crashed aircraft was HR880.

Like many of these incidents, I suspect we may never get to a definitive answer.

Thanks for the help.

Yes, the night fighter version of Re 2001, Re 2001 CN, had two 20 mm cannon installed in two underwing gun gondolas. Also Italian 12.7 mm mgs, all Re 2001s had two of these, had effective HE rounds which could produce damages that might be thought to be produced by 20 mm shells.

[Tim O.]

Thank you Juha!