11 Crewmember B-17

[hanshauprich]

Hello,
what duties have the "Flight Control Observer Tail"? Was he always an officer?

Thanks,
h.

[DavidIsby]

Usually a senior pilot, and hence an officer.

Occupied the tail gunner position on some group lead ships so could inform the group commander of the state of the formation.

Group lead B-17s often flew with 11 men (especially in 1943-early 1944) as a radio operator was required to keep a listening watch and an extra gunner would be carried.

[hanshauprich]

Understand. So he has also the complet gunnery training? And at last, what wings he wear?
h.

[DavidIsby]

Such an individual would have worn his USAAF pilot wings.

I doubt he would have had full gunner training but probably would have been trained to use the twin .50 calibers by the unit if required for self-defense (as the lead ship, the tail position was the least vulnerable).

The training gunners (and especially bombardiers, navigators, and flight engineers) received in the US was found, in 1943, not to meet the needs of air combat over Europe, hence the establishment of the training establishment at Mousehole in Cornwall.

USAAF units would often train individuals for jobs they needed at a unit level when the replacement system could not provide them.

Though the USAAF replacement system was never as terribly dysfunctional as that of the Army Ground Forces. Unless those running that were in German pay, the historians have never explained why it was so bad, even in multiple "Green Book" volumes.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by DavidIsby

Usually a senior pilot, and hence an officer.

Occupied the tail gunner position on some group lead ships so could inform the group commander of the state of the formation.

Group lead B-17s often flew with 11 men (especially in 1943-early 1944) as a radio operator was required to keep a listening watch and an extra gunner would be carried.

A radio operator was Always an included crew position, even when the radio gun was removed. The '11th' person, when included, was usually an observer, occasionally a journalist/photographer like Andy Rooney or Tex McCrary.

The other mandatory (USAAF requirement) crew positions were Pilot, Co-pilot, Navigator, Engineer and Radio/Communications for even a Ferry Flight

[DavidIsby]

When the radio gun was removed, the radio operator would take over one of the waist guns when required.

A more common additional crew member would have been a radar navigator on H2X/H2S equipped B-17s, though this replaced the ball turret on some.