1944 Toplet, Romania, Ju52 crash near Orsova

[egbert]

Who has any information on the crash of a Ju52 near Toplet, Romania, date 10.5.1944?
My uncle Korvettenkapitän Helmut Rosenbaum with other members of his staff from Uboot-Flotille 30, Black Sea, were passengers and crashed. He was buried in nearby Orsova, where he still rests today. The headstones all bear the day of death 10.5.44. It is said that the Ju 52 was shot down by an allied fighter.

There is a conflicting Ju52 crash, dated 16.4.44, same Toplet, also Ju52 with members of JG54 killed. They too are buried in Orsova, same row as my uncle.

Does not make any sense to me......

[gerd 190]

Ju 52 PH+OI Werknr. 3225

The crew had flown into a fog-shrouded mountain 9km northwest of Polet, Romania.

The Info is from U-Boot in Focus Edition No.2

[egbert]

Thanks Gerd for your information. Forum member Matti has sent me an email with information: Ju 52/3mg8e, WNr. 501326

Are these contradicting Werknumbers or could this be the very same Ju52?

[egbert]

Originally Posted by gerd 190

Ju 52 PH+OI Werknr. 3225

The crew had flown into a fog-shrouded mountain 9km northwest of Polet, Romania.

The Info is from U-Boot in Focus Edition No.2

Polet should be actually "Toplet"?

[researcher111]

Egbert ,first of I think you are very fortunate to have had such uncle in your family and would like very much to work on this thread with you. During his life time my old friend Ruddy Klemm ( ex Major und Staffelkapitaen JG54) who used to run his own Flugschule at my location's Airport discussed with me about both accidents . On May 1944 he was for a short while visiting Romania and had recollections. I tend to agree with you that the other JU-52 hit high obstructions in bad weather . Your uncle was a prominent Submariner and therefore I don't exclude the possibility that the Allied Air Forces knew about his planned arrival to Constanza especially that Soviets Iasi - Chisinau offensive and Allied Romania bombings from Italy just began - What I don't know is what was his point of departure,why the JU-52 pilots let down North of Turnul Severin so far off course from Constanza approaches to hit high obstruction at Topletz (Orsova) and where the crash investigation reports of the Romanians can be located .The 1st photo seems to have been taken at Constanza . For the rest of us maybe you can post his grave stone photos and any other photos you are willing to post , mainly and foremost for the general benefit of the readers.

To my knowledge he was supposed to act at Kriegsmarine Hdq in Constanza or take command returning to his U9 which later on ,on Aug 20,44 during the second Iasi-Chisinau offensive was sunken by a Soviet VMF Torpedo Bomber on Canstanza's harbour. On May 5,1944 Turnul Severin was attacked by 483rd Bomb Group from Sterparone / Italy and other BG assets attacked Ploesti . 3 US Fighter Groups were dispatched from Italy protecting the bombers and I'll check for you any downing reports on that day .

The weather aloft may have been CAVOK ,therefore I suspect the JU-52 pilots let down to avoid contact with US fighters and the bomber assets moving towards and from Turnul Severin then either shot down or encountered IMC weather or marginal while letting down before crashing .

Do you by chance know the time of the crash ?

Gruss /AK

[egbert]

Ok. First of all thanks for the information so far.

I have also received valuable information from Matti per email:
"1944-05-10, Kurierstaffel/O.K.M., Ju 52/3mg8e, WNr. 501326, PO+GO, Höhe 1051, 9 km nordnordwestlich Toplet bei Orsova, Absturz. Bruch 100 %."
So Gerds posted Werknummer does not match Matti's Werknummer. but I think you both refer to the same plane, the one that crashed 10.5.44. The other Ju52 that crashed 16.4.44 at the same mountain n/w of Toplet is a coincidence as the passengers were from the air force, JG 54.

The crash indeed occurred 10.5.44. This is the official death date. I have copies from the burial and the wooden crosses. My aunt told me (when she still lived) that my uncle was a passenger with a bunch of other navy guys on the plane from Constanza on its way to Berlin for reports.
Helmut Rosenbaum then was commander Uboot-Flotille 30, Black Sea, stationed and headquartered in Constanza

Please let me know all available details on the death of my uncle.

[egbert]

Also some further information on the Orsova cemetery situation and my uncle here:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...opic=10434&hl=

[egbert]

Helmut Rosenbaum 1944 grave and burial pictures fom cemetery in Orsova

[egbert]

As the crash site supposed to be some 9km n/w of Toplet and at alt 1052m , I come to the conclusion that the 10.5.1944 crash occurred within this red circle, as this is the only mountain/ridge that measures appr. 1052m.

[researcher111]

Egbert

Thank you for feedback I will reply also through Pvt mail. No in fact I reffered to the JU 52 of your uncle which crashed on May 10th,44. Since they
departed from Constanza I need to tell you that since March 44 the whole area meaning Constanza, Tulcea, Mamaia and Mahmudia were constantly
subject to Soviet VMF recon and torpedo / bombing flights which brings me to the conclussion that the departure of
your uncle was either monitored by the Soviets or the JU-52 pilots used a safe passage route which would allow them avoid contact
with Soviet and Allied fighters.

Flying at low altitude and probably lacking radar controlled guidance they have
entered IMC weather and hit high ground . Its one of the numerous accidents of this type
on Romanian soil by the Luftwaffe transport pilots flying the JU-52's. To my best knowledge
most of the pilots were NCO's rather officers such as Feldwebels and Oberfeldwebels mosty
newly trained lacking sufficient instrument flying time.