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Old 9th February 2024, 06:13
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Heinz Bar's accuracy in victory claims

I've always wondered how accurate were his victory claims. It seems that he over-claimed at times and sometimes his claims were completely accurate.
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Old 10th February 2024, 08:48
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Heinz Bar's accuracy in victory claims

Here's what I have, it's in major need of update and overhaul, but I hope it helps:

Heinz Baer

1st claim
25.9.39/1230
Curtiss Hawk
Weissenburg/Lauterburg
Probably No. 112 of GC 4/4. Capt. P Claude baled out but shot at in parachute, DOW (also claimed by Pitcairn)

2nd claim
21.5.40/1620
Hurricane (D-520?)
Samer Not likely to have been a Spitfire or a Hurricane, no attributable losses found

3rd claim
23.5.40/1110
Hurricane
Dunkirk or Bethune
Serial unknown of 253 sqn. P/O J D Ford believed POW

Unconfirmed claim
18.8.40
Spitfire

4th claim
20.8.40/1610
Spitfire I
Overclaiming, only 1 attributable loss: R6818 of 65 sqn. P/O K G Hart, baled out and rescued from sea (versus 4 claims in total)

5th claim
24.8.40/1413
Hurricane I
L1659 of 501 sqn? Sgt. William J Green crashlanded at Hawkinge after combat over Manston, unhurt (attributed to friendly Flak, two other claims at this time)

6th claim
29.8.40/2010 Spitfire
Judging by timings alone, were these actually the two 501 sqn Hurricanes lost at 1920-1930 BT? R4223 of Sgt. William J Green baled out, rescued safely plus P3102 of F/L John Albert Axel Gibson (NZ) baled out slightly WIA (Joppien also claimed at this time, as did Rolf Pingel of I./JG 26)

7th claim
2.9.40/0915
Spitfire
Unit definitely in action against 54 sqn at this time. Overclaiming, no apparent losses. Or possibly 603 sqn: X4250/XT-X of Sgt. Jack Stokoe damaged (Terry and Fleig also claimed)

8th claim
8.9.40/1320
Spitfire I
41 sqn? F/O W J M Scott, KIA off Dover in R6756 at 1215 BT
(also appears to have been claimed by Leppla)
Also a possibility of 46 sqn Hurricanes (misidentified):
P3053 of P/O P R McGregor crashlanded safely
P3201 of SubLt (A) J C Carpenter KIA (baled out but failed to survive)
V6631 of F/L N W Burnett WIA, crashlanded and written off

10th claim
8.11.40/1218
Hurricane
Was this N2649 of 605 sqn? P/O P Tarkowski safe, cat.3 damaged over Maidstone-Staplehurst, also possibly V6870 of 257 "Burma" sqn, Sgt. A D Page KIA over Maidstone or V7652 of 615 sqn, P/O L N Landels WIA over Cranbrook

Unconfirmed claim
8.11.40/1505
Hurricane
N of Dungeness @ 5000m
Possibly V6805 of 501 sqn, Sgt. Harry Cyril Grove KIA. Lost near Blackheath/Sevenoaks around this time.

11th claim
16.4.41/1825
Hurricane
15km or 20km W of Le Touquet @ 3-4000m
601 "City of London" sqn. Three losses: Z2576 of W/C G A L Manton and Z2492 of G/C T N McEvoy, plus Z3090 of S/L J A O'Neill all WIA
(versus 4 claims)

12th claim
21.4.41/2007
Hurricane IIA
NW of Ashford @ 6500m
1 sqn. Overclaiming, only one aircraft damaged. F/L Velebnovsky safe (also claimed by Joppien)

13th claim
6.5.41/1410
Spitfire II
15-20km NW of Calais @ 200m
74 sqn, 3 losses and one damaged. P8364 or P7928 of P/O J Howard, KIA. P7537 of Sgt. A D Arnett, POW. P7428 of Sgt. A F Wilson baled out safely as the engine caught fire. P/O R G E Boulding, cat. 2 damage, safe (versus 5 claims)

14th claim
11.5.41/2140
Spitfire (actually a Hurricane II?)
8km E of Deal @ 50m
Day's only known loss and definitely a victim of JG 2 was Hurricane II V7175 of 504 sqn. F/L B E G White WIA

15th and 16th claims
22.6.41/0940 and 0942
2 x SB-2s
Bug River sector/Kossow-Siedlce/near Starnice @ 1200m
39 SBAP, 10 SAD. 18 losses (the whole formation, versus about 19 claims)

17th claim
22.6.41/0945
MiG ("I-18")
near Starnice
41 IAP, 124 IAP, 126 IAP or 129 IAP, 9 SAD.
126 IAP lost pilots G Alaev, Panfilov and V Ushakov

18th and 19th claims
25.6.41/1130 and 1133
2 x SB-2s
Near Terespol
VVS Western Front. SB losses to fighters in the morning include 130 SBAP, crew of Boris Vladimirovich Bastanzhiev (likely JG 51 victim, already damaged by Flak), they also lost crews of Mikhail Pavlovich Bugorkov and Pavel Borisovich Shakhmatov

Claims 20-24
30.6.41/1055, 1112, 1920, 1935 and 1940
5 x DB-3s
Bobruisk/Histowka sector
VVS Western Front.
96 DBAP definitely lost one near Bobruisk, navigator was Lt. Alexey Alekseevich Egorov and gunner was Aleksey Vasilyevich Shiroborkin.
98 DBAP lost St.Lt. Ivan Mikhailovich Trejbsho (AE CO)

25th claim
1.7.41/1345
I-16 "Rata"
near Nowo Histowka
Said to be from 161 IAP by at least one published source.
Was it actually Ml.Lt. Vladimir Ivanovich Borisov of 163 IAP KIA?

27th Claim
3.7.41/1345
("V-11")
Bobruisk sector
Likely 4 ShAP IL-2 Sturmoviks. Possible losses to fighters include Starshiy Politruk Dryukov and Jnr Lts Krivich and Alekseykin (versus at least 9 claims)

28th claim
5.7.41/1127
MiG-3
Bobruisk sector
401 IAP
Kap. Aleksandr Mikhailovich Ivakin (Ivakhin), KIA, shotdown soon after take-off,
*Ml.Lt. I.I. Istomin, KIA, shotdown in aerial combat,
*Ml.Lt. S.D. Gerasimov, hit in combat, made CL,
*Ml.Lt. N.E. Zorin, hit in combat, made CL,
*Ml.Lt. L.E. Bashkirov, hit in combat, made CL,
*Kapt. E.G. Ulyakhin, KIA, hit by the airfields air defence fire.
(six losses for only 3 known claims at this point. Credit to Paulo Santos and Mikhail Timin for updating our knowledge)

29th and 30th claims
5.7.41/1344 and 1345
2 x DB-3s
Bobruisk sector
Day's DB-3 losses include at least one from 96 DBAP. Gunner was Serzhant Nikolay Alekseevich Borzenko KIA, navigator Ivan Semenovich Frolov also KIA as was Ml.Lt. Fedor Sergeevich Shipiko (all from the same crew?) another gunner KIA was Alexander Ivanovich Burenkov (Orsha sector)

34th, 35th and 36th claims
11.7.41/1502, 1505 and 1645.
3 x DB-3s
Bobruisk sector
96 DBAP, 42 DBAD lost
AE CO St.Lt. Demiyan Stepanovich Borodavka KIA and suffered gunners Nikita Maksimovich Balabanov WIA by fighters and Viktor Petrovich Sakharov KIA this date
207 DBAP lost crews of:
Lt. Ivan Fedorovich Zverev,
St.Lt. Vasily Vasilievich Zybnev,
Ml.Lt. Boris Sergeevich Zhekov,
Ml.Lt. Ivan N. Pohodeev,
Ml.Lt. Alexander Vasilyevich Suhovskij

39th, 40th and 41st claims
23.7.41/1257, 1302 and 1310
3 x Pe-2s
Raids on Shatalowo airfield/Dankowow
411 BAP/OSNAZ. Overclaiming, only 3 losses in this engagement (versus 8 claims all up)

48th claim
3.8.41/1355
Pe-2? (Claimed as an “R-3”)
Could this have been from 136 BAP? Ml.Lt. Stepan Ivanovich Astapov KIA this date. A definite loss to fighters was 33 BAP, Alexey Maksimovich Burkov KIA in Guta sector
(Mathews and Foreman assume an IL-2)

49th and 50th claims
9.8.41/1330 and 1334
2 x DB-3s
Day's losses include 21 DBAP, crew of Lt. Nikolay Gavrilovich Ozeranin brought down by flak and fighters

51st claim
9.8.41/1900
SB-3
3 AE, 57 BAP. 5 losses (two over the target, 3 forcelanded at separate bases)
(Versus 5 claims so this one is indeed a legitimate victory)

53rd claim
10.8.41/1055
I-15
Possibly Lt. Anatoli Danilovich Yaremchuk of 127 IAP KIA

54th claim
11.8.41/1425
I-16 “Rata”
Possibly Ml.Lt. Boris Alekseyevich Fokin KIA near Yelnya

67th and 68th claims
28.8.41/1812 and 1815
2 x Pe-2s
SE of Nowgorod
261 BAP. Crews of Kapitan Yuriy Mykolayovych Garbko (AE CO, returned later with some of his crew), Lt. Alexander Ilyich Lyagushin and Lt. Nikolai Stepanovich Bocharov all shot down
(third claim was made by Karl-Gottfried Nordmann so these are again legitimate victories)

70th and 71st claims
30.8.41/1202 and 1203
2 x DB-3s
22 DBAP. 4 losses, further details pending
(Legitimate victories: Nordmann and Seelmann inflicted the other two losses)

75th and 76th claims
31.8.41/1120 and 1125
2 x Pe-2s
Likely 261 BAP. Crews of Lt. Petr Ivanovich Bormatin and Nikolay Grigoryevich Shirokii all KIA

80th claim
2.12.41/1015
Pe-2
Day's recce losses to fighters include 366 RAP, crew of pilot Pepelevim KIA and navigator Farvaz Husainov WIA. 2 APDR lost crew of Lt. Fiodor Antonovich Koshelev failed to return

Also on 2.12.41, Baer claimed 3 x MiGs throughout the day.
Day’s losses include Lt. Alexander Petrovich Bogdanov of 177 IAP KIA

83rd and 84th claims
7.12.41/1130 and 1357
2 x Pe-2s
One of these was likely 46 BAP. Crew of Lt. Alexey Yemelyanovich Khatuntsev, Lt. Ahtem Abdarman Adji-Khalil and Serzhant Aleksandr Sivkov all KIA

95th claim
19.5.42/0942
R-5
According to allaces.ru, TsAMO 709 NBAP tells us Gersh Nikolaevich Bibikov was listed as killed in a crash this date. Was it due to enemy action and therefore possibly Baer’s victory?

Unconfirmed claim
11.10.42
Spitfire
*1435 sqn and 126 sqn suffered one Spitfire damaged in the morning (raid commenced 0720)
*From 185, 229, 1435 and 126 sqns just after 1000am, another was slightly damaged
* Just after 1330, the day’s 3rd raid saw a Spitfire damaged and crashlanded with the pilot unhurt (believe this was EP550), F/L Wally McLeod in BR236/E of 1435 sqn suffered minor damage. EP727/N of Sgt. J F Jarrett suffered damage as well, forcelanding with minor injuries at Takali
Full victories were claimed by Schlick, Freytag and Schiess of JG 53
*The fourth raid saw EN200/Q of F/L Bill Rolls damaged in the engine but made it back to Luqa for a safe landing. Serial unknown (codes MK-M) of Sgt. Nigel Park was also damaged and he made it back to Takali.. BR183 of Sgt. David MacLean (KIA) was shot down into the sea.

It seems fair to assume Baer’s unconfirmed claim results from having inflicted damage upon one of the Spitfires mentioned above. By no means an overclaim and at the same time, rightfully unconfirmed.

110th and 111th claims
13.10.42/0758 and 0814
2 x Spitfires
N of Malta and N of Marsa Scirocco
185 sqn. Two slightly damaged. Further details pending

112th claim
14.10.42/1759
Spitfire
Malta
Overclaim. This was the last raid of the day and no losses were suffered against it

113th claim
17.10.42/1332
Spitfire
SW of Valetta
Third raid of the day.
1435 sqn suffered EP259 of P/O Stewart badly shot up and forcelanded back at base
185 sqn suffered EP343 of W/C Thompson hit in the hydraulic system and bellylanded back at base whilst Capt. Kuhlmann (South African) had a wingtip damaged
249 sqn was bounced as well but suffered no losses
(Franz Schiess of JG 53 claimed a victory at this time too so one of them got Thompson, the other got Stewart)

114th claim
2.11.42/1450
Hurricane ("Spitfire")
SW of El Alamein
Probably a 274 sqn Hurricane, 2 losses S of EL Alamein: BE705/D of F/S W S Howie KIA and BP438/J of Sgt. J J Robertson shot down and returned the next day
Wulf Focke also claimed a Hurricane and Horst Schlick claimed a P-40 at unlisted times but the same location

15th and 116th claims
3.11.42/1208 and 1210
2 x Hurricanes? (Claimed as "Spitfires")
SW of El Alamein
80 and 127 sqns. 80 sqn lost BP337/B, F/L R G Foskett returned; 127 sqn lost BN406 of F/L R C Lawrence KIA, BP292 of Sgt. R R Mayze MIA, BP289 of Sgt. D G Andrews baled out WIA-POW (arm shot off), HM130 of P/O A D Melville KIA, HL629 of P/O A R Rebman KIA, HL773 of Sgt. N G Thomas forcelanded in a minefield; BG904 of F/S B Wilshaw safe and HM140 of Sgt. A R Moulden safe

117th, 118th and 119th claims
3.11.42/1555, 1558 and 1612
3 x Hurricanes? (Claimed as “Curtiss P-40s")
Quotaifiya – El Alamein sector
Likely 33 sqn.
BP161/P of Sgt. F Henfry MIA W of Daba
and BP471 of P/O G S M Maxwell safe (both left at 1635 British Timing)

All up this date, there were 18 losses attributed to Bf109s versus 19 claims by Bf109 pilots

120th and 121st claims
5.11.42/1340 and 1350
Curtiss P-40 and Spitfire
Day's losses include P/O Wilson of 80 sqn.
145 sqn lost F/S Frederick Arthur Stillman.
274 sqn had W/O Neil bale out into sea after being hit by Bf109.
260 sqn had Sgt. Hartting shot down by Bf109.
112 sqn had FR245/GA-B of Sgt. J M McAuley damaged by a Bf109.
Another serial lost this day was P-40F 41-14028/FL350.
Definite Spitfire losses were BR477 and BR481
(Note: not listed by AHOTMAW 3)
122nd claim
9.11.42/1450
P-40 Kittyhawk III
450 sqn RAAF. FR259 of Sgt. B V Crist was badly damaged, pilot safe and 4 others were slightly damaged

123rd and 124th claims
10.11.42/1434 and 1438
Curtiss P-40E-1 Kittyhawk I
E of Sollum
2 claims for 41-36579/EV325 of 2 sqn SAAF. Capt. Jack E Parsonson POW, escaped and returned 17.11.42

125th and 126th claims
11.11.42/0930 and 0938
2 x Curtiss P-40
Day's losses include
2 sqn, SAAF: Lts. Allen-White and Theron, Lts. V R Burdon (KIA EV356/DB-A) and H S McMaster (KIA in a later combat) Lts. Hope and Burls both crashlanded back at base
260 sqn lost Sgt. Williams (forcelanded at Mersa Matruh) and F/S Hill.
4 sqn, SAAF had Maj. Du Troit shot up and forcelanded (returned later on foot). One of the losses was P-40F Kittyhawk IIA 41-13783 or 13784/FL234. 112 sqn had FR217/GA-C of P/O Brian Anthony Fredrick Cuddon shot down near Arco Philaenorum and KIA

127th and 128th claims
7.12.42/1450 and 1452
2 x Spitfires
Possibly EP779 of 92 sqn? P/O J Joerns baled out (lost around this time)

129th and 130th
8.12.42/1040 and 1055
2 x Curtiss P-40s
AK483 of 5 sqn SAAF. Lt. F T Van Niekerk crashlanded and returned next day

133rd claim
11.12.42/1535
P-40 Kittyhawk
E of Ras Umm el Grainagh
112 sqn, two losses: FR255/GA-J of F/S W D Brown (Canadian)(WIA and forcelanded at Magrun) and FR217/GA-C of P/O Brian Anthony Fredrick Cuddon MIA
(Heinz-Edgar Berres claimed the other)

136th to 140th claims 14.1.43
3 x Kitthawks (2 claimed as “Spitfires”), 2 x B-25 Mitchells
The Kittyhawks:
3 and 450 sqns RAAF plus 250 & 260 sqns. 3 sqn lost FL323 of S/L Bobby Gibbes (crashlanded), FL330 of P/O Les Weatherburn (baled out and POW), 41-14049/FL363 of Sgt. Norm Caldwell (crashlanded), FL346 of F/O William George Diehm and FL346 of F/O Allan Edward Henry Tonkin (KIA). Other losses were F/S Nickolson, Sgt. Frost, Sgt. Cameron, Sgt. Harrison, Sgt. Webster, and Sgt. Kirkman. Total of 11 Kittyhawks shot down. Also lost by 3 sqn was 41-14021/FL345. 41-13990/FL323 also lost this date

The Mitchells
Is this a misidentification of B-26B-2 41-17890 "Swamp Angel" of 17th BG, shot down 12 miles W of Gabes this date?
Or more likely 30 sqn SAAF Boston?

141st and 142nd claims
21.1.43/1515
2 x P-38 Lightnings
97th FS, 82nd FG. Two losses: Lts. Ervin A Lewis and Lloyd F Luddington.
One source says they were to Bf109s and another says they were to Italian fighters.
FOT says these were from 1st FG, no losses

144th and 145th claims
25.1.43/1235 and 1238
2 x P-40 Warhawks
Said to be US-flown machines, otherwise no matching losses. Overclaiming

146th, 147th and 148th claims
27.1.43/1448, 1501 and 1505
3 x P-40E Kittyhawks/Warhawks
US known to have suffered one loss (Lt. Middleton of 81st FG?), Free French also involved in this engagement

149th claim, plus one unconfirmed
4.2.43/1420
B-17F-30-BO Flying Fortress
301st BG. Losses were 42-5076 of 32nd BS, 1/Lt. William C Broderick and crew all POW. Attributed to Puschmann, originally to Flak, and 41-24397 "Phyllis" of 352nd BS, Capt. Paul S Julienne Jr plus 7 safe, 1 KIA, 1 WIA

150th and 151st claims
15.2.43/0745 and 0746
2 x Spitfire Vs
Combat was with 308th and 309th FS, 31st FG. Overclaiming, only one loss: 1/Lt. Joseph C Reed of 308th FS, KIA (Wolfgang Ernst and Kurt Ubben also claimed in the engagement)

152nd claim
26.2.43/1055
Spitfire V
One source says this was IR-G of 244 Wg (borrowed 'Widge' Gleed's Spitfire). S/L L C Wade of 145 sqn bellylanded after cannon strike (attributed to Flak, Baer possibly claimed it)

153rd and 154th claims
26.2.43/1405 and 1415
2 x P-40 Kitthawks
450 sqn RAAF certainly lost P-40K-5-CU 42-9883/FR125 of Sgt F J Silk near Gabes to Bf109s and FR346 of Sgt J Stonely KIA.
3 sqn RAAF lost FL356 of Sgt J G Beer in a crash landing due to combat damage

155th and 156th claims
26.2.43/1703 and 1708
2 x P-40 Kitthawks
2 and 5 sqns SAAF.
2 sqn lost Lt. Platt, 5 sqn lost Lt G.A.L. Dold plus one other unidentified crashlanded

157th claim
27.2.43/1050
Beaufighter
Overclaiming, no losses

158th claim
1.3.43/1456
Spitfire V
Timing matches with 243 sqn. Two losses: ER495 of Sgt. Payne baled out and ER724 of Sgt. C G Aitken KIA.
Location does not match up so well as 243 sqn served in the north, I/JG 77 in the south…

159th claim
3.3.43/0740
Hurricane (mistaken for a "Spitfire", Mathews and Foreman say a “P-40”)
HL931 of 73 sqn. F/S J D A Wright POW

160th claim
3.3.43/0745
P-40 Kittyhawk (mistaken for a "Spitfire" as well)
Kittyhawk AK967/I of 4 sqn SAAF. Lt. A J Mullany POW

161st claim
5.3.43/0700 or 0758
Spitfire (mistaken for a "P-40E")
92 sqn. This one said to be ER646/QJ- of F/O Bernard Lawrence "Happy" McMahon KIA

5.3.43/0745
Spitfire (also mistaken for a "P-40E")
601 "City of London" sqn.
This one said to be BR284/UF-T of F/S John Tilston, baled out safely
(Ernst Laube appears to have claimed it as well)

6.3.43/0758 and 1323
2 x Spitfires
Day's losses include ER646, presumed downed by a Bf109 this date

166th claim
10.3.43/1632
P-40 Kittyhawk
Fuma/Tatauin area (Foum Tatouine)
112 sqn, 6 other losses:42-45865/FR275 of F/S Richard DeBourke (RCAF, American) KIA, FR361 of Sgt. John Henry Oliver RCAF KIA, 42-45885/FR295/GA-G of F/O David Alastair Bruce KIA, also FR292 of Sgt. W Richard Blake (RCAF, American) damaged, FR335 believed to be of Ray "Goose" Guess severely damaged, 42-45798/GA-D of P/O George William Wiley, RCAF ( murdered by Gestapo after the Great Escape) and 42-46154/FR131 of P/O Randolf Charles Carlyle "Smithy" Smith KIA (versus nine claims in total)

Unconfirmed claim
13.3.43/1227
P-40E Kittyhawk
Day's losses include Maj. Archie J Knight of the 65th or 66th FS, shot down and returned.
57th FG lost 4 P-40s to JG 77. 64th FS lost William E Jenks 324th FG lost Robert F Worley in Y-10 to II/JG 77 (returned, later KIA in Vietnam) and Capt. John D Simpson jnr. 64th FS lost Robert K Douglas POW

23.3.43/1053
P-40 Kittyhawk
Was this Lt. L J S Tapson of 4 sqn SAAF? (Possibly actually a flak victim)

23.3.43
Spitfire? ("P-39 Airacobra")
Possibly a P-39L-1-BE of 154th OS, 68th OG listed as lost the previous day (date of Baer's claim in error?). Lt. William C Nutzel

167th claim
23.3.43/1043
B-25 Mitchell
Tunisia
Overclaiming. Only twin-engined loss this date was a Baltimore that crashlanded due to Flak

168th and 169th claims
24.3.43/1010 and 1012
2 x P-40E Kittyhawks
Fatnassa
Said to be from 58th and 59th FS, 33rd FG. Massive Overclaiming. Only one known loss: 42-10524 of Lt. Robert P Kanter of 58th FS bellylanded in a field, aircraft burnt out
(versus at least 5 claims)

170th claim
25.3.43/1209
Baltimore (“Boston”)
21 sqn SAAF. Overclaiming, no actual losses
Kurt Niederhagen claimed one as well and the South Africans claimed a kill in return (itself an overclaim)

171st claim
16.4.43/1550
Spitfire
Into the sea off the Tunisian coast, NW of Cap Bon
Probably ER116 of 145 sqn.
Appears to have been lost around this time

19.4.43
Unconfirmed Spitfire
Day's losses include Vc EE857 of 232 sqn shot down by Bf109s near Pont du Fahs; EN116 of 72 sqn collided with a Bf109 near Oued Zarga. ER343, ER634 and ES135 of 417 sqn RCAF lost on P-40 escort (versus at least 11 claims….)

10.2.44/1113
B-17G-20-DL Flying Fortress
Zwolle-Meppen (PQ FN) @ 7000m
Likely two claims for 42-37960 of 728th BS, 452nd BG. 2/Lt. Hugh E Noell Jr and 6 others POW, remaining 3 crewmen all KIA
(Hermichen claimed in the same area but much later. I have not yet determined who really shot
42-37960 down.)

21.2.44/1403
P-51B-1-NA Mustang
5km N of Stadthagen (PQ 05 Ost S/GT-58)
Likely 43-12161/FT-D of 353rd FS, 354th FG. 1/Lt. John Duane Mattie baled out POW

21.2.44/1525
B-17F-20-DL Flying Fortress
NNW of Rheine (PQ 05 Ost S/GP-6)(crashed at Bexten, near Salzberg)
42-3040 "Miss Quachita" of 323rd BS, 91st BG. 2/Lt Spencer K Osterberg and 7 others POW, 2 KIA

25.2.44/1343
B-17F-115-BO Flying Fortress eV
Stuttgart area (PQ 04 Ost N/AT-8/9)
Likely 42-30678/KY- of 366th BS, 305th BG. 1/Lt. Robert A Safranek and 6 others POW, remaining 3 crewmen all KIA. Definitely already damaged by Flak, so eV is legitimate

3.3.44/1140
P-51B-5-NA Mustang
Verden area/SE of Soltau (PQ 05 Ost S/EU-3/6) @ low altitude
43-6740/VF-R of 336th FS, 4th FG. Lt. Glenn A Herter KIA

6.3.44/1210
W of Diepholz (FS-45) @ 6000m
B-17G-25-BO Flying Fortress
Judging by the timing, was this 42-32002/OE-X "Berlin First" of 335th BS, 95th BG? 2/Lt. Thomas L Barksdale and crew all baled out POW near Barnstorf (Quakenbrueck area)

6.3.44/1445
B-17G-25-BO Flying Fortress
Zeventer area (PQ 05 Ost S/GO/GN)
42-31680/PY-P of 407th BS, 92nd BG. Crew of 1/Lt. Elmyran R Cooper all POW except one man KIA

29.3.44/1325 and 1335
2 x P-51B Mustangs
Sollingen-Obeisfelde
355th FG? Likely 43-12452/OS-I of 357th FS, Lt. Benjamin D Johnston Jr POW, possibly also
43-6508/OS-O of Lt. Howard L Lambert KIA. 43-6317/YF-C "Duel Purpose" of 358th FS, Capt. James H "Lippy" McConnell POW also lost

11.4.44/1059
B-17F-115-BO Flying Fortress
10km NE of Fallersleben (PQ 15 Ost S/FB-7)
Possibly 42-30649/UX- of 327th BS, 92nd BG. 2/Lt. John E Harris and crew all KIA

22.4.44/2008
B-24H-10-CF Liberator
Ahlen area (PQ 05 Ost S/JQ or JG 89) @ 7000m (crashed near Hoetmar)
41-29273 "Flak Magnet" of 753rd BS, 458th BG. Crew of 1/Lt. George N Spaven Jr and Lt. Robert L Zedeker (already damaged by Flak)

1.1.45/0923
Typhoon Ib (mistaken for a "Tempest V")
Eindhoven airfield
PD503/F3-R of 438 sqn, RCAF. F/O Ross Keller KIA

1.1.45/0925
Typhoon Ib (mistaken for a "Tempest V")
Eindhoven airfield
MN486/D of 168 sqn. F/L Howard Plaistowe Gibbons KIA

19.3.45/1215-1300
P-51D Mustang
Near Ingolstadt
52nd FG. 2/ Lt. B H Nippert KIA

9.4.45/1005
B-26G-5-MA Marauder
9km SW of Amberg
43-34334 "Vulgar Vulture" of 556th BS, 387th BG. Crew of Lt. J D Stroud

9.4.45/1006
B-26G-1-MA Marauder
Amberg-Kuemmersbruck area
43-34190 of 558th BS, 387th BG. Severely damaged, written off upon return to base
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  #3  
Old 10th February 2024, 15:23
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Heinz Bar's accuracy in victory claims

Wow, great compilation. Also, December 2,1943 , he claimed a P-38 and a B-17 for no USAAF casualties. Based on this data I would judge him an average claimer , say about 60%.
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  #4  
Old 10th February 2024, 20:54
leonventer leonventer is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 343
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Re: Heinz Bar's accuracy in victory claims

Nick,

Thanks for the useful posting. Great research as always, and your candor about the uncertainty about some of the info is appreciated.

Regards,
Leon Venter
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  #5  
Old 11th February 2024, 08:23
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 895
Nick Hector will become famous soon enoughNick Hector will become famous soon enough
Re: Heinz Bar's accuracy in victory claims

Cheers Kaki3152 and Leon.
Always happy to help
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