Me 262 identification and unusual features

[JonOlsen88]

Hello everybody!

Back in 2010, Marc Andre Haldimann posted a thread containing excellent pics of Bf109ks.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...&highlight=262

Apparently these pics were taken in Vilseck, Germany, June 1945. One of these pics shows the fuselage of an Me 262 painted in a wave-mirror camo (aka wellenmuster). A tantalizing glimpse of the wings’ uppersurface is also visible.

As far as I’m aware, no one has been able to identify this machine in terms of its unit or wr.nr. I’ve cropped the photo and included some annotations to highlight a few notable features of this Me 262. I’ve also attached the original, uncropped (as I found it from the thread) pic without annotations. I’d love to know anyone’s thoughts regarding any aspect of this kite.

It looks like the Me 262 in the background is from Kg 51 or kg54(j). It’s code has the letters KN. Since N indicates the 5th staffel, I believe it’s from the II Gruppe 5th Staffel. I’m not sure that that Me 262’s identity helps us confirm the identity of the one in the foreground, but it’s probably worth considering.
Regarding the Me 262 with the wave-mirror camo in the foreground, it looks like it might have a bomber code (kg 51 or Kg 54?). It also looks like the letter “L” might be visible, or is that a part of the balkenkreuz? If it’s the balkenkreuz, the proportions seem odd. There also seems to be a small rectangular port (or something) above the nose camera port. What do you all think? Is there anything here that strikes you?

[Richard Aigner]

The forward edge of the Balkenkreuz would be at (near) the forward edge of the hatch. So an "L" is likely.
Richard

[harrison987]

an Me262 with a "K" is behind in the background...so this can only be an "L", base on location and size.

[Modeldad]

Based on the aircraft around, the 262's color appears to be 76 perhaps, with 75 on the wings and the wave pattern. Or is the light color a light grey as been seen on some 109 Ks?

The code does appear to be"L"

[Kutscha]

I thought the bomber Me262s had 2 of their cannons removed. Am I mistaken?

[Modeldad]

It appears to have the two upper cannon removed. And given that outline on the upper port, perhaps it was once faired over.

[Roger Gaemperle]

The type of camouflage is typical for KG 51 in the 2nd half of 1944.

The upper two canons needed to be removed only in aircraft produced until sometimes late 1944. Later fighter bomber versions had all 4 canons plus the required bomb carriers and electrical equipment. As far as I remember (haven't access to my Messerschmitt documents right now), it was due to center of gravity and weight reasons. Later Me 262 had the additional fuel tank behind the cockpit after the landing gear had been strenghtened. With the additional fuel tank, the center of gravity was moved backwards again and all 4 canons could be installed.

Since this machine appears to have had only 2 canons and the camouflage pattern is similar to other Me 262s of KG 51 in fall 1944, I'd say it is a KG 51 aircraft produced in 1944.

[Karoband]

Gentlemen,

Am I missing something? To my mind, a yellow K and a black N do not compute. The 5th staffel of a bomber unit should have a red letter. May I suggest that the final letter is a V?
This would make it the 11th staffel which in a bomber gruppe would still be red. However, with the change to four-staffel gruppes of the fighter geschwaders in November 1944, the colour of the 11th staffel became yellow and it was in the III gruppe! This aircraft may belong to a KG(J).

Jim

[Nick Beale]

This from ULTRA may relate to the aircraft in the background:

At 05.00 on 10 March, Obltn. WALTER (TO) was advised by Prüfmeister Wasserschläver of 5./KG 51 that 110590, KL was one of five aircraft that could not be repaired owing to a lack spare parts (wing, jet units, nose tips).

Also, re LL:

CX/MSS/T498/52
… ((2)) To KABUS (( (Roman) I/KG)) 51, Hopsten from Obpfr. Plattner, stamped 2345/19/3:
Strength return of 19/3:
BB, HH, LL, ML, IL, AK, LK serviceable.

[Modeldad]

I don't believe the letter after the "K" on the 262 in the back is even legible. I would submit that the individual aircraft letter "K" is yellow and the "L" is white.