Luftwaffe Losses Detailed Information

[Nick Beale]

Two ULTRAs from 1940:

CX/JQ/101
1/7/40
6. Staffel 7 of JG 53 reported on 30/6 that a/c DD+HY while engaged on courier duty between Rennes and Paris had a mishap resulting in 80% damage; the two NCO’s of the crew being slightly injured. (A)

CX/JQ/496
1.12.40
18. Restkommando of KGr. 100 wished to know from KGr. 100 on 30/11 whether a/c DD+RQ, W.Nr. 3353 was to receive marking 6N+AH. Hauptmann Schmidt had already communicated with KGr. 100, and the Restkommando required an immediate answer. Oberleutnant Garms replied that the marking would be 6N+AH. (A)

[Tom Willis]

Hi Nick - Thanks for this additional insight into early Lw decripts. Both Stkz are new. the DD+RQ with W/Nr 3353 is most likely a He111H. However, I have this W/Nr as KL+GK dated 30.01.43 from a foto source. Any ideas?
The DD+HY is less certain. I have DD+HX as a Fw44 with LKS4 dated 10.40. Although this type of aircraft was more likely to be allocated to a 2nd line training duties several have been noted with 1st line fighter units. Again any ideas?

[Gerhard]

Going back to the Ju 52:
There is yet another version around:
7082-7107 DD+ZA to DD+ZZ
of which 7089 did not actually use DD+ZH (or for a very short time only), but was converted to a 'te' model for Lufthansa as D-ASHY.
What is the correct version?

And finally, which aircraft was lost on 29.05.43: 7103 or 7105?

Gerhard

[Merlin]

post #11

According to a photo the DD+HY was a Go145.

Arado Brandenburg manufactured He 111H from WNr. 3137 to 3352. The 3352 was lost by KGr 100 as 6N+AH on 14.03.41. The WNr. in the Ultra report seems to be incorrect.

WNr. 3353 to 3360 were the last He 111P-2 manufactured at Rostock, this sub version was not operated by KGr 100.

[Seaplanes]

W.Nr. 7089 was never assigned a Stammkennzeichen as it was reserved for DLH use when this series was planned by JFM (D-ASHY "Gustav Dörr"). Consequently there will be a "gap" in the Stammkennzeichen used for W.Nr. 7081 (DD+ZA) and W.Nr. 7107 (DD+ZZ).

Ju 52/3mg5e W.Nr. 7103 (DD+ZV) arrived in Werft Pillau about 28. February 1943 for conversion from land- to floatplane, carrying the unit markings G6+ES. After conversion the plane left for Wien-Winterhafen seaplane station on 03. March 1943. The plane was taken over by the Lufttransportfliegerstaffel (See) in Greece but was lost due to enemy fire on 29. May 1943 en-route from Milos to Athens.

Ju 52/3mg5e W.Nr. 7105 (DD+ZX) was never converted and remained a landplane until damaged 70% at Pleskau-Süd on 06. March 1942 while in
service With K.Gr.z.b.V. 9.

I hope this will clearify the situation.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes

Yes it does indeed clarify the situation with regard to WNr 7103 and 7105.

Since I am partly to 'blame' for this very interesting discussion, I would very much like to have some clarification regarding an accident (which I most probably once have picked up here on TOCH) regarding a Ju 52/3m which was w/o 24.5.1941 somewhere in Greece while being operated by Tr.St./VIII Fliegerkorps. I noted it down as WNr 7104 and STKZ DD+ZY.

Can you or anyone else tell me which one this really was and where I did go wrong?

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

In the Gen.Qu. loss lists this aircraft is listed as W.Nr. 7104 and St.kz. DD+ZY. 100% lost on 24. May 1941. As three crewmembers were killed in this accident there should be a NVM issued. The unit is claimed as Transportstaffel VIII. Fliegerkorps. Perhaps Matti can contribute with further info.

[Rottler]

Hello Stig and Seaplanes,

here are the informations of the Gen.Qu. loss reports:

8.6.43 Nr. 183:
29.5.43 Lufttransportstaffel See F Milos-Athen Zerstörerbeschuss F unverletzt, außerdem 1 Fluggast (Marine) tot Ju 52 7103 100%. Crew look at earlier post.

29.5.41 Nr. 25 and correction from 5.6.41 cipher s:
24.5.41 Transportstaffel VIII. Fliegerkorps Boikovo Absturz Aufschlagbrand
Ju 52 DD+ZY 7104 100%
F Fw Herbert Niemann dead
Bm Ofw Ludwig Pfeil dead
Bf Uffz Josef Tanzer dead

7.3.42 Nr. 31:
6.3.42 KGrzbV 9 Flugplatz Pleskau Süd 7105 durch startende Ju 88 gerammt 70%.

Regards
Leo

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes and Leo

Since according to your masterlist DD+ZA to +ZZ, DD+ZY should be WNr 7106, it seems we have a problem here.

In your opinion, which is the most reliable data in GQM, the WNr or the STKZ?

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

I have from the NVMs:
1941-05-24, Tr.St./VIII.Fl.Korps, Ju 52/3mg5e, 7104, DD+ZY, Bolkowo
Flugzeugführer Fw Niemann, Herbert, +
Bordfunker Uffz Tanzer, Josef, +
Bordmechaniker Ofw Pfeil, Ludwig, +
Fluggast Uffz Cichos, Edmund, +
Fluggast Uffz Schrader, Werner, +
Fluggast Uffz Zahnke, Otto, +
Absturz und Aufschlagbrand infolge Felsberührung. Bruch 100 %.

Has the RLM requested the manufacturers assign the SKZ-blocks to the aircraft in consequtive order, i.e. alphabetical versus numerical order. Because there are occasional gaps, could also the order have been changed to confuse enemy intelligence?

Matti