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  #1  
Old 22nd June 2008, 21:43
beppino beppino is offline
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Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Hello

I am reseraching the Luftwaffe bombing of Bari harbour,12 Dic 1943.Can you help me to find useful sources on the Luftwaffe units involved ? Do you know books and articles on this fascinating yet neglected subject ? Is it true that all the Luftwaffe official documents were destroyed in 1945 ? Thanks in advance for all your invaluable help.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 23:05
leonventer leonventer is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by beppino View Post
I am reseraching the Luftwaffe bombing of Bari harbour,12 Dic 1943. Can you help me to find useful sources on the Luftwaffe units involved?
This comes from a couple of postings on the old TOCH board by LwFlieger in June 2003:

Units involved in Bari raid:

I./KG 30 - moved from Viterbo to Ghedi and Piacenza /N Italy (c 25 Sep 43); raided Bari harbor (2 Dec 43); - Kommandeur: Hptm. Günther(?) Schulz (DKG) (Nov 43? - Feb 44?)

II./KG 30 - raided Bari harbor (4 Dec); transferred from Villafranca to Varel /NW Germany (14 Dec 43). - Kommandeur: Maj. Ernst Pflüger (DKG) (Jun 43 - Apr 44?)

III./KG 30 - not involved. - at Leck/ Schleswig-Holstein (end of Oct 43 � 1 Mar 44); rebuilt strength and trained (Nov 43 � Feb 44); - Kommandeur: Maj. Helmut Störchel (DKG, RK)(Jan 43? - Feb 44)

I./KG 54 - under II. Fl.Korps, flew major raid on harbor of Bari /Italy (2 Dec); withdrawn from Cameri for Regensburg-Obertraubling /Germany for rest and replacement (11 Dec 43); - Kommandeur: Maj. Otfried Sehrt (5 Oct 43 - 30 Sep 44)

II./KG 54 - at Bergamo /N Italy under II. Fl.Korps; took part in infamous raid on the port of Bari /S Italy (2/3 Dec); - Kommandeur: Hptm. Karl Palliardi (DKG) (24 Oct 43 - 25 Apr 44)

III./KG 54 - not involved - at Ingolstadt-Manching for rebuilding and training (late Oct 43 � 31 Mar 44) - Kommandeur: Maj. Franz Zauner (DKG, RK) (1 Apr 43 - 30 Sep 44)

I./KG 76 - to Villaorba (near Udine /NE Italy) to attack harbors and shipping at Naples, Bari, Anzio-Nettuno, etc. (15 Oct); had 32 Ju 88A-4 (1 Dec); probably struck port of Bari (2/3 Dec 43) - Kommandeur: Hptm. Helmut? Wahl (Dec 43 - Jan 44) -acting

II./KG 76 - not involved - transferred from Italy to Varrelbusch /NW Germany for rest and to prepare for ops over England (4 Dec 43) - Kommandeur: Maj. Siegfried Geisler (DKG, RK) (c Sep 43 - 8 May 45)

III./KG 76 - not involved - Gruppe rested and recuperated about 6 months (Jul 43 � Jan 44); relocated from Laon-Athies to Hörsching, near Linz /N Austria (25 Nov) - Kommandeur: Maj. Wilhelm Held ( ? � Apr 44 - 1 Dec 44); Maj. Hansgeorg Bätcher (DKG, RK, EL) (6 Dec 44 - c 25 Feb 45)

I./LG 1 - not involved. - still at Athens-Eleusis but ordered to Larissa /C Greece (25 Nov); had 25 Ju 88A-4 (1 Dec); still at Athens-Eleusis (6 Dec 43) - Kommandeur: Maj. Karl-Heinz Schomann (DKG, RK) (24 Mar 43 - 16 May 44?)

II./LG 1 - not involved - left Greece for Wiener Neustadt /Austria (last week of Sep); accident noted at Wiener Neustadt (6 Nov); reported having 10 Ju 88A-4 (1 Dec 43); still at Wiener Neustadt (Jan - Mar 44) - Kommandeur: Hptm. Leopold Köck (DKG) (10 Sep 43 - ?), Maj. Dieter Clemm von Hohenberg (DKG, RK) (? - 30 Jun 44) KIA

III./LG 1 - while maintaining its rear echelon at Eleusis, the Gruppe relocated to Heraklion /Crete (from late Nov); reported having 32 Ju 88A-4 (1 Dec); raided Bari harbor (13 Dec 43) - Kommandeur: Maj. Hans-Günther Nedden (DKG) (1 May 43 - 8 Jun 44)

Any other units not mentioned were not known to have been involved.

Our data is drawn from every source which can be obtained without spending a fortune. Virtually all published sources have been sifted for information. My partner in this project, Larry deZeng has for decades searched through all the surviving loss records and all accessible microfilms, including those from Allied intelligence reports. The only documents not reviewed are those not put on microfilm. In the process of reviewing the data from all these sources the truth usually becomes quite clear and we have exploded quite a few myths and misunderstandings. In short, what I sent you regarding "not involved" Gruppen is in fact correct. Many of those Gruppen that were absent had only departed the Mediterranean front a month or two earlier, to rebuild / re-equip after being mauled by Allied air power which was becoming overwhelming.


Quote:
Do you know books and articles on this fascinating yet neglected subject?
Here are some suggested resources:

"Disaster at Bari" by Glenn Infield; MacMillan, 1971

Giuseppe Finizio posted this on the old TOCH in Jan 2002:
The American view of the Bari bombing is now given in "NIGHTMARE IN BARI" by Gerald Reminick, The Glencannon Press, 2001. This well researched book supersedes the fictious book by Glenn Infield.


Issue 79 of the magazine "After the Battle" contains a comprehensive article describing the raid's effect on the Allies.

There's also some information on pages 197 & 198 of "Kampfgeschwader 54: von der Ju 52 zur Me 262" by Radtke.

Regards,
Leon Venter
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Old 23rd June 2008, 00:15
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Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Here are some web links, some good some not so good....


BBC Peoples War - http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/53/a2087453.shtml

Chapters 6 to 10 of Glen Infield's Book

From the US Naval Historical Centre

Wikipedia

From Ahoy - Mac's Web Log
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Old 23rd June 2008, 19:56
beppino beppino is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Thank you.
How many aircraft of each KG partecipated in the air raid ? What type ? More mission details ?
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Old 23rd June 2008, 21:54
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Guys

Just out of curiosity, why were the Allies offloading bombs (grenades?) with mustard gas in Bari? The Germans had not used gas in warfare since WW 1 and as far as I know did not intend to use any. Also bombs suggest there was an intention to use it through aeroplanes, or do the web sites mean artillery grenades? Why Italy? Surely the Allies did not intend to use it in THAT country, did they?

Why mustard gas? Of all C-gases it is the least effective. Was it the only one the Allies had available.

All very puzzling....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 24th June 2008, 10:02
beppino beppino is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

III./LG 1 - while maintaining its rear echelon at Eleusis, the Gruppe relocated to Heraklion /Crete (from late Nov); reported having 32 Ju 88A-4 (1 Dec); raided Bari harbor (13 Dec 43) - Kommandeur: Maj. Hans-Günther Nedden (DKG) (1 May 43 - 8 Jun 44)

Is the date of 13 Dec 1943 a misprint ?
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Old 24th June 2008, 10:35
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

I would add that there is a short account of the raid in my book Kampfflieger Vol. 4 in the Classic Colours series and supplementary material on my website (including the two aircraft lost during the attack).
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Old 24th June 2008, 15:24
beppino beppino is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Thank you.I am surprised to see that one of the missing Ju-88s belonged to the 3./KG 30 since I was told that this unit was not invloved in the attack.Can you explain this matter ?
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Old 24th June 2008, 16:32
veltro veltro is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by beppino View Post
Thank you.I am surprised to see that one of the missing Ju-88s belonged to the 3./KG 30 since I was told that this unit was not invloved in the attack.Can you explain this matter ?
3./KG 30 means 3rd Staffel of KG 30 - usually within First (I.) Gruppe); whereas III./KG 30 means Third Gruppe of the same unit...
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Old 24th June 2008, 21:09
beppino beppino is offline
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Re: Attack on shipping in Bari harbour on 12th December 1943

Please,forgive my ignorance.I am a bit confused about the Luftwaffe units which participated to the raid on Bari harbour .I know that 105 aircraft left on 2 Dec 1943 and 17 flew back due to mechanical troubles.In PRO Air40/2253 the units involved are :

I./KG 30
II./KG 30
I./KG 54
II./ KG 54
I./KG 76
II./KG 76

Now I read that also III./LG1 attacked Bari and that II./KG 76 did not.Can anyone help me ?
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