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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #11  
Old 26th July 2018, 12:02
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Re: Il-2 pilots with 10 or more aerial kills

Good morning Edward,

yes but that's the usual overclaiming issue.
With regard to ground kills I deem it impossible to create verified scores for the ground attack aces.

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
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  #12  
Old 27th July 2018, 14:04
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Re: Il-2 pilots with 10 or more aerial kills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward L. Hsiao View Post
That list of Soviet tank killers was based on Soviet sources and not believed at all by a lot of people of the world. I for one didn't believe that list. Victor Golubjev's vehicle kills of 875 is not right. Very few German tank crews and truck and other vehicle drivers had ever given reports about how effective Soviet ground assault planes were.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao
Good afternoon, Gentlemens.
The same words can be said about H.-U. Rudel and him's 519 tanks and 800 vehicles (0,2 tanks and 0,32 vehicles on mission).
Data about V.M. Golubev is likely distorted information about group victories, not personal (in him's other award documents, almost all mention of the destroyed equipment is made in the context of the actions of his squadron). A specified data - this till August 1943 (at the time of the second "Gold Star").

Data on V.I.Kozlovsky also likely related to his squadron (maybe this group claims of squadron under his command for 6-10 aircraft). As of April 1944 (him's "Gold Star"), he (him's crew) claimed 3 aircraft, 15 tanks and 120 vehicles (0,15 tanks and 1,2 vehicles on mission). Vehicles in the USSR, sometimes it's and carts and individual horses (but sometimes they were divided).

In any case, this does not cancel total overclaiming all ground assault planes.
The loss of Soviet tanks from the actions of the Luftwaffe was also not great - even in 1942, with the superiority of the Luftwaffe in the air and in tank brigades with light tanks (T-60, T-70, M3 Stewart, M3 Lee).

Best regards,
Kirill
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  #13  
Old 27th July 2018, 14:09
kirche kirche is online now
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Re: Il-2 pilots with 10 or more aerial kills

P.S:
The usual daily summary during the preparation for the offensive of one of the tank brigades was: "The brigade area was bombed three times in groups of up to 20-27 enemy aircraft - losses: 2 people were killed and 6 people were wounded" (mainly in the motorized infantry battalion).
In the peri-active period of the offensive and the breakthrough of the front line of the same brigade: enemy aviation prevailed in the air - as a result, the infantry could not accompany the tanks and opened the flank. The enemy's artillery (self-propelled and ATA) from the flank disrupted (stopped) 50% of the tanks in the attacking battalions. The retreating infantry allowed to approach the tanks of enemy soldiers who attacked the damaged tanks with bottles of combustible mixture and anti-tank grenades. Result: 2 tanks are irretrievably lost! Attempts to introduce reserves into the battle were also violated by aviation - as a result of the disrupted order of the offensive and retreat of the infantry of escort, the enemy's anti-tank artillery disarmed tanks (infantry without tanks did not go).

Here is the typical tactic of German aviation against the Soviet tank brigades on the defensive - and no "Rudel" (tank-fighters) were needed here.
A similar tactic was also used by Soviet stormtroopers-the disruption of communications and the transfer of troops in the rear, the suppression of infantry and artillery on the front lines, and the damage to aircraft at aerodromes. And the destruction (or often capture) of equipment was carried out by infantry and artillery in the seizure of positions.
Both those and other "battlefield planes" did their job. And in every case there were heroes.
The rest is for high-ranking staff officers who easily rewarded only themselves, as well as their adjutants, staff radio operators, cooks and personal drivers. Those who now like to discuss the plausibility of the claims of that terrible war at the level "I believe / do not believe" remind me those staff officers.
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  #14  
Old 31st July 2018, 14:32
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Re: Il-2 pilots with 10 or more aerial kills

Good afternoon Gentlemen,

as a summary I compiled all Il-2 aces gathered so far in this thead
• Aleksandr Osipenko, 17 kills plus 34 shared
• Ilya Mospanov, 21 kills
• Mikhail Ryabshevskii, 15 kills
• Nikolai Popov, 1 kill plus 35 shared
• Alexei Golimbiyevskii, 12 kills
• Vasilij Kozlovskij, 12 kills
• Yefim Mikhalenkov, 12 kills
• Mikhail Odintsov, 12 kills
• Nikolai Chuvin, 11 kills
• Nikolai Maximov, 6 kills plus 12 shared
• Nikolai Globin, 10 kills
• Georgii Parshin, 10 kills
• Georgii Popov, 10 kills
• Victor Kondakov, 5 kills plus 10 shared
• Otari Tchetchelashvili, 5 plus 10 shared
• Otari Goltchine, 4 kills plus 12 shared
• Aleksandr Jefimov, 5 kills plus 2 shared

Can anybody tell me the decimals of the shared kills of Osipenko ?

Michael
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