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  #361  
Old 19th April 2018, 09:27
peter.werry peter.werry is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

#359 item 19 is a Macchi C.205V probably from II/JG77.
Regards
Peter
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  #362  
Old 19th April 2018, 09:41
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

In post 359, #19 is a Macchi C.205. Joachim Deicke apparently flew one with 6./JG77 in Dec 1943. II. Gruppe was the only one with c.205's. Could this photo be examples from II./JG77, despite the horizontal dash not being present? Or was there another Luftwaffe unit which flew the C.205?
Peter
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  #363  
Old 19th April 2018, 13:12
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Re: eBay: German intrest

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Originally Posted by PMoz99 View Post
I'm OK with the cooks eyeing off the chicken, but I'm not so sure I'd be that happy if my unit cook was holding a dog!!
Peter
Must be one of the Korean chaps enlisted in the Luftwaffe then.
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  #364  
Old 20th April 2018, 04:55
peter.werry peter.werry is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

#359, Further to my post #361 and Peter's #362, in late September 1943 Major Feytag's II/JG77 moved to the Aeromacchi factory at Lonate Pozzolo and spent October converting to the MacchiC.205V. In early November, the gruppe relocated to Lagnasco and became operational, but by late Decenber, the gruppe handed their 205's to 1 Gruppo Caccia of the ANR and received Bf109G-6 replacements. In early January 44, 5/ & 6/ transferred to Caselle with 4/ going to Levadigi. The 6/ staffelkaptan Ltn. Deicke flew 'yellow1' MM92224 with the horizontal yellow bar of 6 staffel. The whole story is covered in pages 40-44 of the French magazine Aero Journal No.36 of April/May 2004 by Enrico Leproni. I do not know of any other Luftwaffe combat unit flying theC.205, but perhaps it was used by training units?.
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Peter
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  #365  
Old 20th April 2018, 07:16
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

Interesting Peter

Enrico Leproni wrote a short article about this already in Aerofan 85 (Apr-June 2003 issue).
He claims Lt Deicke flew MM92212.
There is indeed a photo showing MM92212 in German markings, but the angle is such that no tactical code digit is visible. However the bar after the German cross seems to be yellow, so I would say it was at least a 6.St aircraft.

Since I don't have Aero Journal can you elaborate a bit? Any photo proof of MM92224 being 'gelbe 1' for example?

Cheers
Stig
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  #366  
Old 20th April 2018, 08:13
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Re: eBay: German intrest

You can find the Stab/JG 77 war diary entries for use of the C.205 in November/December 1943 here: http://www.ghostbombers.com/JG77/jg77_01.html
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  #367  
Old 20th April 2018, 08:20
peter.werry peter.werry is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

#365, You are absolutely correct Stig as I made an error as Dieke's a/c was MM92212 not MM92224 which was Uffz. Schwarz. The photo introducing the AJ article is clearly marked as MM92212 with horizontal bar but no code digit is visible (so probably the same photo you have). The photo states that it was taken at Lonate Pozzolo and taken from 2 o'clock position. Other serials identified in the article are: 92215 Uffz. Soltman of 6/, 92217 of Uffz.Breuser of 5/, 92218 of Uffz.Funke 'Yellow4'of 6/, 92247 of ? 'Yellow17' of 6/, 92221 no more details and 92224 of Uffz. Schwarz.There is no photographic evidence that 92212 carried a yellow 1, but as Ltn. Joachim Diecke was the staffelkapitan, perhaps it is a supposition of E.Leproni.
Sorry for the initial incorrect posting
Regards
Peter
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  #368  
Old 20th April 2018, 08:40
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

Thanks Peter (and Nick)

Leproni identifies MM92209, 92212-213, 92215, 92217-225, 92244, 92247 as certain deliveries.
So in all probability II./JG 77 received the whole range. No deliveries went south and with ANR's 1 Gruppo under formation there was little else for the production to go until the latter was ready late Dec 1943/early Jan 1944.

Just out of curiosity, who was the author in Aero Journal?

Cheers
Stig
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  #369  
Old 20th April 2018, 09:26
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter.werry View Post
#365, You are absolutely correct Stig as I made an error as Dieke's a/c was MM92212 not MM92224 which was Uffz. Schwarz. The photo introducing the AJ article is clearly marked as MM92212 with horizontal bar but no code digit is visible (so probably the same photo you have). The photo states that it was taken at Lonate Pozzolo and taken from 2 o'clock position. Other serials identified in the article are: 92215 Uffz. Soltman of 6/, 92217 of Uffz.Breuser of 5/, 92218 of Uffz.Funke 'Yellow4'of 6/, 92247 of ? 'Yellow17' of 6/, 92221 no more details and 92224 of Uffz. Schwarz.There is no photographic evidence that 92212 carried a yellow 1, but as Ltn. Joachim Diecke was the staffelkapitan, perhaps it is a supposition of E.Leproni.
Sorry for the initial incorrect posting
Regards
Peter
I have a poor copy of a photo of a C.205v yellow 1 supposedly from Dec 1943 (assuming it was not photoshopped), perhaps after the C.205's were handed back to the Italians. The paint forward of the white theatre band suggests the german cross has been painted out, but then again, it's not a great quality copy so it might just be an illusion. The smoke rings on the tail also appear to have a blank spot, like maybe a swastika has been overpainted.
The serial number's last 2 digits aren't decipherable. The 22 in the middle seems clear, but the last 2 just don't look like 12 to me. What do you guys think? Could it be 2212? Could it be Deicke's a/c after it was handed back? The info I have suggests it was flown by Marco Mannoni late Dec 1943.
Attached copy of photo.
Peter
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Deicke, Joachim Mc.205V 6.JG77 Italy Dec 1943.jpg (140.5 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by PMoz99; 20th April 2018 at 09:37. Reason: correct name error
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  #370  
Old 20th April 2018, 11:09
peter.werry peter.werry is offline
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Re: eBay: German intrest

#368 the author of the Aero Journal article is Enrico Leproni, Stig, the same author of the AeroFan article.
#369 Leproni in AJ says that in late December43 MM92212 was taken from Deicke and given to Capitano Marco Marinone who removed the German markings so your photo, Peter, could indicate that MM92212 carried a yellow 1 whilst with 6/JG77.
Regards
Peter
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