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  #1  
Old 10th September 2018, 22:00
Cees Steijger Cees Steijger is offline
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Nickname P-51D 44-13411

According to the website of the 4th FG "Frankie" was the nickname of P-51D 44-13411. Who can confirm/source? Need the info for a memorial in Zeewolde, Netherlands. 44-13411 crashed on 20.11.44 in former lake IJsselmeer.

--Cees
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Old 10th September 2018, 22:14
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

Hello,


Here is some information:


http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/14028
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Old 10th September 2018, 23:40
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Peter Randall Peter Randall is offline
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

"Frankie" is the name of the P-51 given by the 4th FG Association, and you can find it on the pdf download for Lt. Werner.

Go to http://www.4thfightergroupassociation.org/pilots.html and click on his name. I work very closely with them and have no reason to doubt their information.
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Old 11th September 2018, 04:54
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

I think the a/c was actually the regular mount of Shelton Monroe, 5 air and 5 ground kills
Peter
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:53
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

Not when it was lost. Monroe completed his first tour on 14th August and 44-13411 was reassigned to Werner. Monroe started his second tour on 1st November, so had a newer P-51, coded QP-N, whilst Werner kept 44-13411 QP-Q. Shelton Monroe was later transferred to the 335th FS where he had 44-63670 WD-O.
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Last edited by Peter Randall; 11th September 2018 at 10:26. Reason: Additional information added.
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Old 11th September 2018, 10:48
Cees Steijger Cees Steijger is offline
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

So the source would be the 4FG Association's pdf of Leonard Werner. Probably http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/14028 has the info from there.
The attached photograph shows "Frankie". The serial on the tail begins with 4. I gather 41...1, and if one considers that the last two numbers are close together it may well ends with 11.

There were 6 different P-51 with code QP-Q - besides 44 -13411:

1. 43-6690 P-51B 334 QP-Q
2. 44-14142 P-51D 334 QP-Q
3. 44-14202 P-51D 334 QP-Q
4. 44-14292 P-51D 334 QP-Q "Floozy Suzy"|
5. 44-73141 P-51D 334 QP-Q "Anne II"

1. is a B thus can be excluded
2. Ends with a '2' thus can be excluded
3. Ends with a '2' thus can be excluded
4. and 5. Have different nick name.

Is this enough 'proof' to conclude that 44-13411 was "Frankie"? We do want to mention it on a memorial in Zeewolde (NL) where the P-51 went down on 20 november 1944 (former lake IJsselmeer).

What are your thoughts?

--Cees
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Old 11th September 2018, 14:55
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Randall View Post
Not when it was lost.
I am aware of that. Just trying to explain the 10 kill markings. Odd that if they were Monroe's the a/c would still carry them 3 months later .........
Or did some other ace take it over in the meantime? You said it was reassigned to Werner, but can you say when?
Peter
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Old 11th September 2018, 20:36
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

The ten kill markings displayed in the photo are of no significance. The next pilot (Werner) would have had them removed as they apply to the pilot and not the aircraft. Any photo is only a snapshot in time.

Monroe last flew QP-Q on 9th August, going home on leave on 19th August. On return, to the 4th FG on 1st November he was assigned a new P-51 44-15146, believed to be QP-N. He crash-landed that at Debden on 11th November due to engine failure on a local flight. Following that he flew four operational missions with 334FS in P-51s coded QP-N (serial uncertain as 334 does not list them in their records). These missions were on 18 December, 2, 6 and 21 January, after that he was transferred to 335FS.
Werner first flew QP-Q on 18th August and then flew it regularly until his loss in it on 20th November. When I say regularly, that means 29 times out of 36 missions.I would say you are on a safe wicket with "Frankie" but if you don't accept what I say, check with Tim McCann at 4th FG Association, as he is the the Secretary and Newsletter editor.
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Old 12th September 2018, 02:47
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Re: Nickname P-51D 44-13411

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Randall View Post
.I would say you are on a safe wicket with "Frankie" but if you don't accept what I say, check with Tim McCann at 4th FG Association, as he is the the Secretary and Newsletter editor.
Sorry Peter, I didn't mean for this to go on and on. I think you missed my point, which was simply that the photo first linked in post #2 is of Monroe, not Werner. But then, I guess the thread is more about the plane, not the pilot, so maybe I should have just let it go .........

Peter
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