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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
Just recently I noticed in JFV 9/II that it has "10.08.42 8./JG 52 Oblt. Guenther Rall LaGG-3 (46) 06:09 Pl.Qu. 05232/ S. Krasnodar". That location and S. of Krasnodar doesn't match. In Tony Woods list I believe its 85 232. Is there a confirmation in Rall's log book?
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#2
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
Hi
tony Woods is correct in his reading of grid quadrant 85232 altitude 1800 metres, which I worked-out to be East of Stawropoliskaja. But there would be several places with this reference as the grid quadrants reoccure, but they are just about as far apart as can be......it all depends on where the unit is at that time. Also Southwest of Boston would be the same place as Northeast of New York! Kind Regards Johannes |
#3
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
Thank you Johannes! The 85 is probably the correct Pl.Qu. even though the Lutwaffe was flying in the 05 and I have found claims in this area on occasion. The S. of Krasnodar seemed kind of wrong for that Pl.Qu. I found Stavropolskaya to the south of Krasnodar. Now I need to verify the Soviet pilot's location and time that I suspect.
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#4
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
Hi
Rall was particulary meticulous in claiming, he never really had large numbers of claims in a day as he "didn't take risks"! Sad thing is that he lamented the fact that his closest competition Graf, Nowotny and Hartmann received the Brillianten, and he only the Schwerter, yet he would appear to be the only honest claimer amongst them. The Author Bernd Barbas questioned him about the confirmation of number 275, and it would appear that Rall didn't complete the paperwork as he was incapacitated at the time, so 274 it is! All others are confirmed on the micro films, and numbers 199 and 200 are duplicated exactly a month later, which proves that the micro films do harbor mistakes!!! You will find that if a pilot makes huge daily claims that he is usually being dis-honest, but it's not always the case! Regards Johannes |
#5
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
Hartmann wasn't a honest claimer? I beg to differ on that. The Russians tended to lie more about there losses. Easier to do that then to end up in the Gulag.
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#6
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
If you read the Lipfert war diary, he talks of intercepting the Russian weather reconnaissance flights on many occasions and getting kills that way.
Then go through Rall's victory list and look at the altitudes of some of his kills... ...It starts to become clear that he made kind of a 'career' out of shooting down single aircraft flying at relatively high altitude in comparison to most of the eastern front combats e.g. the weather reconaissance fighters that Lipfert wrote of. |
#7
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
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Documents with personal losses are available on-line, in contrast with German NVM, which still unavailable after the closing in the end of Eighties. |
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
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Regards Rasmussen |
#9
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
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#10
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Re: Question of J. Prien on Rall in JFV 9/II
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It was a complot of commanders, engineer service, personnel branch, political officers (an independent channel of info) and osobists (2nd independent channel) of all levels? One day some regiment lose his last aircraft but continue to report on the evening that 20-30 aircrafts are ready for action next morning? Let's take in to account, that bulk of everyday papers, monthly reports and so on survived the war and available now. And available for the multiple cross-checking. In contrast with Luftwaffe documents, whose ~96 per cents of documents were destroyed. |
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