Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17th August 2005, 10:25
Csaba B. Stenge's Avatar
Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hungary
Posts: 596
Csaba B. Stenge is on a distinguished road
"Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

Gentlemen,

well, an interesting question. I checked hundeds of detailed Abschussmeldungen in BA-MA, but don't remember any of them, which was mentioned as "wirklich beschossen" and later was claimed as a full kill, but it not means, that it's not happened sometimes.

Anyone have some details, when "wirklich beschossen" planes were confirmed as kills or were mentioned among the air victories?

Thanks in advance,
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17th August 2005, 11:07
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 5,930
Nick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura about
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

It means "fired upon effectively" so I guess it would be similar to anRAF claim of damaged if "effectively" meant that pieces flew off or smoke was seen to emerge.
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17th August 2005, 11:29
ju55dk's Avatar
ju55dk ju55dk is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,084
ju55dk will become famous soon enough
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

The correct german word is wirksam! The meaning is as described by Nick Beale.


Junker
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th August 2005, 12:01
Csaba B. Stenge's Avatar
Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hungary
Posts: 596
Csaba B. Stenge is on a distinguished road
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

Ok, thanks for the correcting (just copied it from Tony Wood's list without thinking>;-P) but I am still interested in the answer, because the Luftwaffe did not count the damaged planes generally and not added these events to the pilot's personal successes. So, where there any of these type of claims counted as a full kill?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18th August 2005, 11:48
Jens Jens is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 147
Jens
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

IMHO "wirklich beschossen" means "upon fired really" in sense of "really hit".

"fired upon effectivly" would mean "wirksam beschossen".

wirksam = effectivly
wirklich = really
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18th August 2005, 16:39
Andreas Brekken's Avatar
Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aurskog, Norway
Posts: 1,494
Andreas Brekken is on a distinguished road
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

Hi.

According to one of the veterans of the Reichsverteidigung I have talked to, they used this term when filing a claim and relied on a later confirmation when wreckage etc was found.

He said that they started using it when attacking high-flying aircraft, because they usually fired on (and was fired on by) multiple targets, and did not always have time to follow what happened to the aircraft they engaged.

Regards,
Andreas
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th August 2005, 09:36
Csaba B. Stenge's Avatar
Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hungary
Posts: 596
Csaba B. Stenge is on a distinguished road
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

Thanks Andreas,


for this interesting remebrance. BTW I found one of this type of claim against a Soviet Boston (not against an US Viermot), that's why I am looking for some further info.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19th August 2005, 10:02
Marius Marius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 286
Marius is on a distinguished road
Re: "Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

Hi,
"wirklich beschossen" isn`t right. It has to be: "wirksam beschossen".
As I remember German pilots stated about that attacking B-17 and B-24. This means they had hit the aircraft, but didn`t knew the fate of it.
Marius
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
German claims and Allied losses May 1940 Laurent Rizzotti Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 19th May 2010 12:13
60 years after German KL Auchwitz-Birkenau Mirek Wawrzynski The Second World War in General 10 7th January 2008 16:20
German Claims in Poland 1939 Marius Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 56 12th September 2005 18:39
German Claims for 13 Dec 1941 Buz Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 18th August 2005 16:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net