Robert Spreckels

[harryurz]

Hi guys,
Just finished re-reading Bob Braham's excellent "Scramble" and the thought occured to me not a lot is known about the guy who shot him down in 1944, (Robert Spreckels), apart from what is mentioned in the book text.

The Kracker archives is limited and a search regarding units served, combat claims etc. throws up little further information.

Can anyone fill in the gaps?

Thus far Spreckels appears to have served with JG1 in 1942 and then JG 11 mid 1943 onwards. Magnus quotes 12 victories while Bowers/Lednicer quotes 21 victories, whle other references state 44 claims. Only 8 are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records, with reportedly 6 heavies ?

He was shot down or force landed four times, including during Bodenplatte.

[SteveR]

I also tried to find out more about Spreckels a few years ago after re-reading Braham's book.

I'll admit, I got sidetracked rather quickly, so this is about the only thing I found with more info on him:

https://www.airmen.dk/p327.htm

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by harryurz

Hi guys,

Thus far Spreckels appears to have served with JG1 in 1942 and then JG 11 mid 1943 onwards. Magnus quotes 12 victories while Bowers/Lednicer quotes 21 victories, whle other references state 44 claims. Only 8 are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records, with reportedly 6 heavies ?

Harry

Checking Johannes Mathews, he could only come up with four claims by Spreckels when je published his Aces Vol 4. Two B-17 and two Mosquitoes.
Since he is only known to have served with JG 1 and JG 11, I find both 21 and 44 claims quite impossible. Even 12 claims sounds a bit too much.

Can you expand on which 8 claims are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records?
From the data at hand, it seems you thus have records of four additional 4-engined aircraft. Which were they and where are they recorded?

Cheers
Stig

[Brian Bines]

The cranstonfinearts site shows the following for Spreckels

22-3-1943 B-17 8/JG 1
13-5-1944 B-17 JG11
19-5-1944 B-17 JG 11
16-6-1944 Mosquito JG11
25-6-1944 Mosquito JG11

It also has quotes the total of 21 victories could this be 21 points rather han actual victories ?

[tonda75]

Hi, I have this:

1. Ls 1.8.42 Boston 30 km W.Helgoland
2. 22.3.43 B17 HSS N.Texel
3. 25.6.43 B17
4. 25.6.43 B17 HSS
5 13.5.44 B17
6. 19.5.44 B17
7. 16.6.44 Mosquito
8. 25.6.44 Mosquito
9th and 10th Ls. June-September 1944 on the Eastern Front.

Regards Tony

[harryurz]

Hi Stig,
This is what I've found thus:

Claim 1/ 1 August 1942 (8.JG1) "Boston " 30 km. W. Helgoland 17-56 hours;
No obvious matches, though looking at JG1's 1942 coastal encounters the "Boston" may be a Beaufort or a Beaufighter/Blenheim type from Coastal Command. Uffz Karl Bugaj 11./JG 1 shot down Mosquito DK308 of 105 Sqn. North of Langeoog at 13:18 hrs that same day.



Claim 2/ 22 March 1943 (8.JG 1) B-17HSS Texel.
76 B-17's and 26 B-24's against Wilhelmshaven, losing 1 B-17 and 2 B-24's with 12 B-17s and 10 B-24's damaged. All 4 of JG1 gruppen flew two missions. JG 1 claimed 6 bombers ; 2 B24s and 4 B17s.


Claim 3 & 4/ 25 June 1943 Two B-17s ( now with 2. JG 11; 9.05 and 9.27 hours)
275 B-17's in scattered attacks on targets of opportunity in NW Germany when Bremen and Hamburg are obscured; 18 B-17's lost, Luft claimed 21, the 34 aircraft of JG11 claimed 12 of these (Stab claimed 2, I/JG 11 claimed 5 0812-0930 hours, II/JG 11 claimed 5). I/ JG 11 lost 2 FW190s (1 KIA).


We now have a big gap (maybe he as wounded in 1943?) to-


Claim 5/ 13 May 1944 B17 over Norway, with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11)

749 bombers and 737 fighters hit targets in Germany; 12 bombers and 5 fighters lost; 289 B-17s dispatched to oil targets in W Poland; 10 bombers lost and 81 damaged. 199 B-17s dispatched to Osnabruck; 1 B-17 lost and 61 damaged; 261 B-24s to Tutow; 1 B-24 lost and 2 damaged; The most combats were with the escorts ; P-47s claimed 14-2-9, P-51s claimed 33-1-4; Luftwaffe lost 38 with 18 KIA. JG11 claimed 3 B-17s (Inc. Spreckels) 3 P-47s and 2 P-51s for 12 fighters lost, 6 KIA. Ops flown 1200-13-30 hours


claim 6/19 May 1944 B17 with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11);
888 bombers and 700 fighters to Germany; 28 bombers and 19 fighters lost; fighters claim 77-0-33 : 588 B-17s to Berlin; 16 B-17s lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 289 damaged; 300 B-24s to Brunswick; 12 B-24s lost and 64 damaged; On outward journey I/JG11 claimed 5 B-24s, II/JG11 claimed 2 fighters for 12 losses. Return journey I/ JG 11 claimed a B24 HSS and III/JG 11 claimed 2 B-17s for no loss. Luft lost 68 fighters, 30 KIA.



claim7/ 16 June 1944 11.24 hours Mosguito S. Hadsünd, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (NS913) “SM-T” of 305 Sqn (Pol) RAF S/L MJ. Herrick DFC&B and Navigator F/O A Turski (Pol)both KIA;


claim 8/ 25 June 1944 12.05 hours Mosquito Skjern/Jütland, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (LR373) “YH-A” of 21 Sqn RAF W/C RJ Braham DSO&2B DFC&B and Navigator S/L DC Walch POW.


Spreckels is next referenced on 1 January 1945, when 41 Fw190s of Stab., I and III/JG 11 and 20 Bf109s of II/ JG11 took part in Bodenplatte, their target the airfield near Asch, Belgium, designated Y-29, hosting the 352nd FG and 366th FG. Some 30 of JG 11 attacked Ophoven (RAF 125 Wg) by mistake. A Squadron of the 366th was already airborne to attack ground targets in the Bulge. A Squadron from the 352nd was idling on the runway as approached, and was able to get all 12 aircraft off. A large dogfight then occurred at low altitude over the base. JG11 lost 24 planes (4 to AA) and 22 pilots for a claim of 11 Allied aircraft down. 352nd FG claimed 23, 366th FG claimed 8, AA claimed 7,

Obfw. Robert Spreckels 11./JG 11 was slightly wounded, returned in an FW190A-8 , belly landed near Aachen, shot up by 352nd FG P-51 or P-47 of the 366th FG.



His rank also seems to vary and is often quoted as a Leutnant. Strikes me if he did continue serving with JG 11 then further (unconfirmed or recorded) claims could be in early 1945 against the Soviets?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Brian, Tony, Harry

Thanks, but what is (are) your source(s)?

I don't know what cranstonfinearts site can contribute to this topic, so please enlighten me.

Cheers
Stig

[Brian Bines]

The Cranstonfinearts site contains brief profiles for pilots connected with the aviation prints it sells , the profile for Spreckels is just the victories I listed

regards
Brian Bines

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Brian Bines

The Cranstonfinearts site contains brief profiles for pilots connected with the aviation prints it sells , the profile for Spreckels is just the victories I listed

regards
Brian Bines

Thanks Brian
I made a brief check on the site but could not find Spreckels.
However, I am still back on square one, not knowing the origin of the data.
Johannes has gone through the microfilms, so maybe it is again an interpretation of the names listed?

I will ask Johannes to read this and check on Spreckels, if any new info has come to light after his book was published.

Cheers
Stig

[Johannes]

Thanks for the prompt Stig

Only four of Spreckles claims are found on the microfilms, so these should be considered as FACT:-

25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0907 hrs
25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0925 hrs

These were claimed as an Unteroffizier with 2./JG11. This Staffels earlier typed-out mikrofilms have not survived, but on 17th April 1943 it started listing on the daily claims mikrofilm for the West which ended on 5th December 1944. These are complete with the exception of those in January 1944, but are covered by the Staffels date and time only mikrofilm.

16th June 1944 Mosquito South of Hadsund at 600 metres 1124 hrs
25th June 1944 Mosquito Skjern area at only 25 metres and at 1205 hrs

Both of these were as a Feldwebel with Ast./JG11.

It is possible that he claimed prior to 17th April 1943 with 2./JG11, or with another Staffel, or after December 1944, and he is thought to have claimed two Sowiet aircraft during this latter time.

Date of Birth I have of 14th March 1943. Not much else known, but he has almost certainly died post war. Final rank Oberfeldwebel. For the reason listed above I did not number his claims....because of the possibility of previous claims to those listed.

Prien has done some superb work on multiple units, but sometimes used guesses for claims he had dates for i.e date and time given only, sometimes he was correct, sometimes he was not. Any claims other than the four he had previously listed within the time-frame 17th April 1943 until December 1944 will be incorrect, those previous to that date are guesses, and if he was incorrect during the time-frame ones, there is no reason to believe those prior would be correct as it would appear he is not working this case using Spreckles flugbuch or any other reliable source. Those Prien is correct with with other pilots is because he used a reliable source of some sort. Naturally there is always the possibility of unconfirmed claims during the time-frame.

Kind Regards

Johannes