Blohm & Voss victory claims

[James A Pratt III]

This is a lisiting of claims by Blohm & Voss aircraft:

BV 138
24 Jan 1941 Hudson P5273 233 Sqn FTL intern in Ireland after combat with KuFlGr 406
22 oct 1941 Catalina AH566 413 Sqn by 2/KuFlGr 406

from John Foreman 1941 books

claim of Soviet flying boat over the Black Sea by cannon fire at range of 2187 yards or 2 km
from Combat Aircraft of World War Two Elke C Weal

BV 222
22 Oct 1943 PB4Y VB-105 according to wiki on the BV 222

[Karoband]

Sorry, but I could not find anything for the 1941 claims in the RL 5/1455 file.

The claim of 1.(F)/SAGr 129 for 22 October 1943 is found in RL 5/1452 p. 0382:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1500

p.s. Do you have a date for the Russian aircraft?

[Chris Goss]

The 22 Oct 43 is well known with photos of the encounter

[James A Pratt III]

sorry the book did not give the date of the claim of the Russian aircraft

[keith A]

A Sea Hurricane of 802 (or 883) Squadron was lost defending a convoy in September 1942. The Bv138 may not have put in a claim but the Sea Hurricane was lost attacking the Bv138. My recollection is that it was the c.o of 802 Squadron but my memory is not what it was. Even when it was what is was, it wasn't that good

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1501

Hi Keith,

I do not know if these claims involve a BV 138 but I believe KüFlSt 406 may have been partially equipped with them. The source is Bundesarchiv file RL 5/1459 page 0360.

Jim

[igorrB]

This fight was between one He.115 form 1./406 and 4 Sea Hurricanes (according to german data). One claim at 17.35 13.9.42. Source is LF 5 report in NARA T-1022, rolls 3912-13, PG32509

[Martin Gleeson]

Regarding that first claim on 24 January 1941, are there any more specific details about it ? Especially time and location ?

The Hudson that was force-landed in neutral Ireland that day was P5123 ‘ZS-W’ of 233 Squadron. P5273 was a Fairey Battle which was sent to Australia in June 1941.

The crew of P5123 took-off at 9.20 a.m. and belly-landed it at approximately 5.00 p.m. in County Sligo. The crew stated to the Irish Authorities that they had become lost during the sortie and the aircraft ran out of fuel. To date, neither I or Dennis Burke on his excellent website have found a hint of any combat on this mission in British or Irish primary source documents. Dennis has an extensive page on this aircraft, well worth viewing. The Irish officers who reported on the state of the aircraft after the landing recorded nothing about possible damage. The Irish Air Corps recovered the Hudson and it was bought by the Irish government from the UK in 1942 and - after repair - was put into Irish service as ‘91’.

However, to confuse matters, I have come across an account from a passenger on board ‘91’ in August 1942 stating he was shown several small patches on the port fuselage side and was told that this was damage from combat at some time during its RAF service. If indeed these were bullet holes it is not clear if these were as a result of the 24 January 1941 flight or earlier.

I am not aware of BV 138s operating off north-west Ireland in early 1941 or ever doing so. It would be great if someone can prove they did – or did not. To the best of my knowledge this general area was the preserve of the FW 200 Condors.

The crew of P5123 were detailed to escort convoy HG 50, but were unable to locate it. Convoy HG 50 was proceeding from Gibraltar to Liverpool, losing two ships en route to the FW 200s. From the locations of the ships sunk it is clear the convoy was travelling north and well west of Ireland before rounding it to gain entry into the Irish Sea and then to Liverpool on January 26th . The SS ‘Kapetan Stratis’ was a straggler from the convoy and was sunk on 22 January 1941 about 85 miles WNW of Belmullet in County Mayo. Next day the SS ‘Mostyn’ was lost some 200 miles WNW of Belmullet. Among other sources used for these losses were ‘WORLD WAR II SEA WAR, Vol. 3’ (p. 224) by Donald A. Bertke, Don Kindell and Gordon Smith, the late Arnold Hague’s online convoy database and Google Earth.

I would certainly be interested to learn more about any possible BV 138 connection to this incident if there is one. I am aware of the two BV 138s from 2./906 lost during November 1940, one off the south-west coast of Ireland and one in the Atlantic ‘off Ireland’.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[dp_burke]

This is the webpage martin kindly refers to. Great opportunity for me to capture a multitude of typos!!!

I can only say that of the sources we have available:

The Irish Army G2 report makes no mention of any damage, they would have commented on their being used casings on the aircraft I'm sure, or that the guns had been fired. And damage serious enough to bring the aircraft down I think would be very obvious during the repairs in the months after.

The Crew never mentioned it to Irish Army at the time they were apprehended.

They don't mention it in their Escape and Evasion reports in 1943.

There is no mention in the AIR81 file, but then there is no obvious testimony from the crew in that file. There is no extra information sent by the British Military attache in Ireland, and no Form 765.

Sgt Jefferson didn't mention it in his diary.

If the book was published in 1994, and J Foreman didn't have the aircraft's serial number correct, what would have been his sources at the time? The ORB at least and what German records?

The 233 sSqn ORB available now online is very clear, there are no other Pxxxx Hudson's mentioned in the month, all Txxxx and Nxxxx aircraft. P5123 is clearly typed

Without him having any other narrative in 1994, he might make the connection between the two.?

[James A Pratt III]

13 Sep 42 Sea Hurricane 802 Sqn Lt E Taylor KIA ( I think he was an ace) shot down by 1/406 HE-115 (From some old note I found on convoy PQ-18.

The only other HE 115 victory I know of is from FE notes:
5 Sep 1939 Anson 206 Sqn P.O. F. L> Edwards POW the other 2 crew KIA by M2+FH 1/106