Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th March 2005, 15:33
Lagarto Lagarto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Lagarto
56th FG - friendly fire case on 4 May 1943 - info needed

On 4 May 1943 Dave Schilling of 56th FG supposedly knocked down a British Spitfire, both part of Ramrod over the Netherlands. Can anyone confirm/deny? Thanks in advance
  #2  
Old 7th March 2005, 15:42
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,382
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
Ha, it was Schilling? What is your source? One Spitfire indeed returned to Northolt with some holes - there is a photo of damaged wing in Mushroom's 315 Sqn - but was it the aircraft? Two Spitfires failed to return - plenty of German claims as well. A friendly pilot had a lenghty recognition dog-fight with a Thunderbolt and as he recalled, he got really sweat when found it was an American - he realised he cannot down him but was not sure if American did the same.
  #3  
Old 7th March 2005, 16:06
Lagarto Lagarto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Lagarto
Ha, it was 315 Sqn?! Quite ironic if you think of Gabreski.
Unfortunately, my source is just a loose piece of info found on some message board.
I'm just reading the "56th Fighter Group" by Roger Freeman (published by Osprey) and ther's not a word of the incident, or even about 4 May at all. So maybe, it's just a rumour. Thank you Franek for replying
  #4  
Old 7th March 2005, 16:19
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,382
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
I remember a note in DeDecker/Roba book(?) that it was Zemke's Wolfpack responsible for the attack but no names mentioned.
PCR of Dubielecki (pilot hit) does mention attacking Thunderbolts. Fortunatelly Gabby did not fly the mission!
  #5  
Old 7th March 2005, 17:13
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 435
Christer Bergström is on a distinguished road
"It proved to be another unhappy day for the 56th on withdrawal support. Near Walcheren what was taken to be an Me 109 was attacked and shot down. The victim later proved to be an RAF Spitfire." (Freeman, "The Mighty Eighth", p. 43.)
__________________
All the best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/
  #6  
Old 7th March 2005, 20:11
Lagarto Lagarto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Lagarto
Hi Christer! I haven't heard from you for quite a while.
Looks like unfortunately there was an actual loss of RAF Spitfire, not only a "close shave".
Any idea which squadron did the Spit come from? Franek, if you're around, could you possibly check if 315 lost any of its own on that day? I don't have the Mushroom's book you mentioned before.

Btw, Christer - how's your work on BC RS vol. III and Schuck's biography?
  #7  
Old 8th March 2005, 00:13
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,382
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
I do not need to check!
Maciej Lipiński was downed and killed over Walcheren near Flushing. I think he was a section leader of mentioned friendly pilot. Another two pilots went down that day as well.
Anybody has any related documents?!
  #8  
Old 8th March 2005, 04:27
Six Nifty .50s Six Nifty .50s is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 246
Six Nifty .50s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski
I do not need to check!
Maciej Lipiński was downed and killed over Walcheren near Flushing. I think he was a section leader of mentioned friendly pilot. Another two pilots went down that day as well.
Anybody has any related documents?!

Lipinski's Spitfire IX (EN131) was claimed as shot down by a German test pilot from the Erla Werke factory flight.

The victim shot down by the P-47 was most likely a 611 Squadron Spitfire IX (EN567) piloted by Flying Officer V. S. Neill. The RAF had him listed as "possibly hit by B-17 gunners".

The Brit writer Roger Freeman also didn't mention that the Spitfires may have attacked the Thunderbolts first. It wouldn't be the first time, or the last.
  #9  
Old 8th March 2005, 21:16
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,382
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Nifty .50s
Lipinski's Spitfire IX (EN131) was claimed as shot down by a German test pilot from the Erla Werke factory flight.
If I can correctly decipher a poor scan of Fay's combat report, his victim was taken POW. Thus it must have been Tomasz Łęgowski of 316 Sqn. Fay is not mentioned on Tony Wood's list though.

Quote:
The victim shot down by the P-47 was most likely a 611 Squadron Spitfire IX (EN567) piloted by Flying Officer V. S. Neill. The RAF had him listed as "possibly hit by B-17 gunners".
Even worsest RAF pilot could not mistook P-47 for B-17. Certainly there was a court of inquiry which provided more details.

Quote:
The Brit writer Roger Freeman also didn't mention that the Spitfires may have attacked the Thunderbolts first. It wouldn't be the first time, or the last.
Yes indeed, Americans got the reputation of attacking first and only then asking.
  #10  
Old 9th March 2005, 00:28
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 435
Christer Bergström is on a distinguished road
Lagarto,

Quote:
Christer - how's your work on BC RS vol. III and Schuck's biography?
It’s going just great, thank you!

“Black Cross/Red Star”, Vol. 3 will be published quite soon - maybe this spring or summer - by Eagle Editions. I can assure you that they are working very hard to have it finished as soon as possible. See the latest updates on Eagle Editions’s website:

http://www.eagle-editions.com/BCRS.HTM

As for the Schuck book, having completed a couple of other books in the meantime, I am working on that one right now. But thanks for reminding me - I have to send a batch of new questions to Mr.Schuck. I can’t say when it will be completed, but I hope soon. See the Schuck book website for more updates:

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/
__________________
All the best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly fire WWII Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 803 8th July 2023 16:47
Don Gentile's P-47 ("Donny boy") - info badly needed Lagarto Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 24th November 2012 17:44
Friendly fire losses Nonny Allied and Soviet Air Forces 5 23rd May 2009 19:56
wierd incident involving P47 and 'friendly fire' Lagarto Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 26th March 2005 19:43


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net