Peter Duttmann vs "panzer"

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Andrew Arthy

Hi,

The Luftwaffe itself drew that line, and balloons were included as aerial victories, whereas tanks, trucks, bridges etc. were not. See the attached from 1944, which lists the various victories against ground targets in one section of the daily report, and then the aerial victories (including a Fesselballon).

I'm a little doubtful about this "tanks being counted as aerial victories" story. There is a dubious, seemingly post-war entry in the Düttmann Leistungsbuch, and checking out the Eder story in Caldwell, the author notes that Eder filled out tank destruction reports for the Shermans, so I have strong doubts that they would have counted towards his aerial victory tally.

Michel, regarding Messer, I see he recorded the destruction of tanks and other ground targets in his Flugbuch (as did many other fighter pilots involved in strafing missions), but did he actually include these in his aerial victory tally?

I'd be happy to see any primary source evidence about this subject.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

I have been following this discussion with interest.

I believe Luftwaffe scored their most balloon victories during the Battle of Britain. Many Luftwaffe fighters took pot shots at the London balloon defence for instance. Where are all those victories? If Luftwaffe did count balloons as victories, they surely must have started that later in the war?

With regard to tanks I cannot think they counted as an aerial victory anywhere, unless the Allies had invented flying ones...
In such a case how do we look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel? The greatest ace of all time? I cannot believe the Luftwaffe had one counting system for fighter pilots and another for Stuka/SG pilots.

As with everything military during a long war, claims of course must have gone through some kind of evolution and it would be interesting, as Andy says, to see some primary evidence during the various stages of WW 2.

Cheers
Stig