The Eagles Over Europe Project

[Bertrand H]

Hi,

My friend Philippe Couderchon told me that in the book "Junkers 88 et 188 français" by Pierre Dumollard, Avia Éditions there is a plan of Villacoublay A/F.

Note that page 7 there is an aerial view of jan.1944 (USAF credit)

We can definitively confirm that the photo taken on this airfield but not to tell if it is before or after summer 1940.

Bertrand

[Larry Hickey]

Hello all,

Thanx for all your very helpful suggestions and photos. Göran Larsson just sent me a photo from P. 53 of "Avions Hors Serie 24, La Débacle de mai-juin 1940." It shows exactly this scene only taken further down the runway closer to the larger tower. In the distance on my photo, it's now clear that all the indistinct images farther down the field are French a/c wreck and debris. That whole end of the runway is covered with them. There is a significant aircraft wreckage dump there. So this answers my qualms about no French wrecks--there were plenty of them, just not near the a/c in my photos. This also suggests that there was time to clear off the airfield area around the photo site, and move all the French wrecks down to a dump site at the far end of the field.

The clincher is that this new photo also shows the wingtip of Bf110 "White G" that has the distinctive top wing-cross style used only by LG 1 during the WC, and early BoB. This a/c was L1+GH, for which I have several other photos, including one which matches these wingtip markings.

I think that Gerhard's (Merlin) suggestion that L1+XB (with the Adj wingtip L1+YB) was there for a commander's conference for V. Fliegerkorps units. To me this does date this at least to late-June, 1940, and possibly sometime during the early Battle of Britain period. This explains why Villacoublay is not listed as one of the places V.(Z)/LG1 was based during this period.

My final task which might allow me to date this photo precisely involves taking the Horst Liensberger FBs that I have for this period and see if I can find a sortie to Villacoublay. That will tell me if this is late or end FC or early BoB.

Thanx again for all the help. I'll let you know what story the FBs tell.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

One last question, the "Avions Hors Seies" photo is captioned "Velizy-Villacoublay." I presume this means that this was photographed on Velizy Airfield, Villacoublay, France and that there was more than one airfield there. Is that correct? Or was Velizy just the name used for the only airfield at Villacoublay?

[ouidjat]

Hi Larry,

Not much time left to put me in ...
But Dumollard's book was in my mind as obvious and first source ... though being in China ... far to be reachable
...
As for "Vélizy-Villacoublay"; It's actual name though I don't know if it was in use during the 40s - I'm quite sure it wasn't.
But maybe a clue to differenciate Villacoublay and Villacoublay-Nord in use at that time. (Like Buc, Toussus and so on in this "crowded" area)

Note that "Le Musée de l'Air" had its "reserves" down there during years, I'll be surprised if you don't find answers with them.

Regards, Franck.

[Alfred.MONZAT]

Villacoublay-Nord and Villacoublay-Sud were name introduced and used only by the Germans. Both are part of Base Aérienne 102 "René DORME" which is Vélizy-Villacoublay (all airfield in France, even recent ones, have two names like that, so if you see a Sud or a Nord it's a pure german name)

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

So would the correct designation in English be "Vélizy-Villacoublay Airfield, France," or "Vélizy Airfield, Villacoublay, France?"

[udf_00]

BA 107 Villacoublay (CEMA) (Centre d'Essais du Matériel Aérien)

[RT]

The Wn is known ??

Rémi

[Alfred.MONZAT]

BA 107 is a designation of the Armée de l'Air so it would be wrong to use it while in german hands. "Vélizy-Villacoublay Airfield, France," seems the best but everybody will understand if you only write "Villacoublay Airfield" (in contrary to write only "Vélizy Airfield")

[udf_00]

No Vélizy here : http://www.ww2.dk/misc/ob13840.htm
V. Fliegerkorps in Villacoublay
Stab/KG55 Villacoublay Ob Stoeckl He 111P
III./KG55 Villacoublay Maj Schemmell He 111P
4.(F)/121 Villacoublay Hptm Kerber Ju 88A

Nor here : http://8thafhs.com/search.php
Villacoublay (25 results)
Vélizy or Velizy (0 results)

Villacoublay airfield is pre-WW1
Vélizy became Vélizy-Villacoublay just pre-WW2 because of the notoriety of the nearby airfield at Villacoublay.
The use of "Vélizy-Villacoublay" for the airfield is post-WW2.

P.S. In Ch.1 of Alarm in Westen (Alerte à l'ouest) Willi Heilmann posted to III./JG 54 circa June 1944, try to land at Villacoublay.

P.P.S. on 13 Aug 1940 V.(Z)/LG1 was subordinate to VIII. Fliegerkorps, but from when ?