Mystery Spad?

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on delcampe is a photo of a Spad S.904 at:


https://www.delcampe.net/de/sammlero...946678175.html


Is this the Spad 5?


Probably not such a mystery to someone who knows there way around Spad aircraft, but new to me.


Edit. Bet it turns out to be post war and not a mystery.



Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

First of all Clint, I don't know what it is, but a very interesting find!

Secondly I don't believe it is postwar, at least not a fighter. Marking on the tail (S.904) is very high for anything built postwar. Also the engine mount/cowling looks decidely "old fashioned", making me think for something postwar a rather retrograde design.

Is it just me, or does it look a bit trainer like? If it is a windscreen we are looking at it looks very flat and quite wide. Could it be a side-by-side trainer?
Not that I have ever heard of one from the SPAD company, so this also looks a bit far fetched.

Perhaps you should put a question to the French forum you seem to frequent?

If it is a wartime aircraft, the s/n is higher than both the initial SPAD VII and XIII. Quite a puzzle...

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


Thanks for the reply. I was just covering all my angles and getting in my excuses early when I wrote post war. I agree it looks too old to be post war.Your comment about the serial number is sound. Its probably really to high to be the Spad 5. I went for that after noticing that Davilla and Soltan don't have a photo.But as for what it is?


If you are getting your Spad 13 serials from

http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escad...ciete_SPAD.htm I wondered given how hard (at least for me) it is to tell a Spad 7 from a Spad 13, whether the low S.13 numbers are not in fact all really Spad 7s and therefore S.901 has a Spad designation somewhere between S.7 and S.13, but then again you have the low number S.12s on that site.But given the date the S.12 was produced those serials too look to low. Partial serials taken as the whole number I'll bet.


Regards,


Clint

Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Well Clint

Without knowing in detail how neither the French production nor application of the SFA numbers worked, the below is built on guesswork, but here we go.

Initially the SPAD was not a very successful company.
Not until the very useful S.VII/XIII and other types based on that came along did they reach maturedom.

I can well imagine SFA assigning s/n 1-999 to SPAD
Then giving 1000 and up to someone else, 2000 to a third company etc. No idea how big these assigned batches were. Possibly in my books/articles somewhere.
We can be very certain though that no way almost 19000 SPAD aircraft were built furing the war!

Possibly the batches were allocated by SFA to factories, meaning that if SPAD built aircraft in more than one factory, such a place may have been given its own batch number

As you can see from the Denis site S.904 is in a sort of "limbo" all by itself
Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello Stig,


I haven't been looking at French serials for long, but the numbers it seems to me were specific to the manufacturers. I haven't checked on Albindenis before writing this and of course though the serials there are very useful they are very incomplete.


What I'm saying is Spad had a S.901, but Breguet had a Br.901 and Nieuport a N.901 and so forth.


The numbers we're seeing are not SFA assigned IMHO.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Aha Clint

I think you confuse Italian serialnumbers with French

SFA gave every manufacturer the same ranges.
You will have plenty of duplicated numbers, differing in their letter code only.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Stig,


Yes thats what I said.The second sentence of my post. I agree the first sentence was not that clear.However, when you write :


can well imagine SFA assigning s/n 1-999 to SPAD
Then giving 1000 and up to someone else, 2000 to a third company etc.



Thats what I responded to and if you read that I believe you'll agree that it could be read to suggest the opposite of your last post.


I'm suggesting the polar opposite of the italian system, but I hope you can see what I , somewhat surprised I must admit, thought you were saying.






Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ah yes, sorry

Was in a too much hurry...
But I still do believe SFA assigned the numbers, not the manufacturers themselves.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


Very possible. Did aircraft that were not accepted by the military receive a number on the tail?. If not that suggests S.901 was more than a prototype. Did for example unsuccsessful prototypes built by Spad receive a S. number at all?



Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Very good question

I know far too little about the assigning of serialnumbers by SFA and their relationship to the numbers the manufacturer used.

The French manufacturers were very early to adopt their specific numbers, so if you check those known, you will find they usually began from number 1.
If they actually put a plate on the aircraft is not known by me, but Breguet at least painted the factory number on his aircraft, in many cases on one of the struts.

Caudron kept a very good diary which seems to have been preserved. Their c/n are very much different from the SFA assigned numbers

Cheers
Stig