Hptm. Joachim Muncheberg - Stab./JG 51

[Artur PK]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for informations about Muncheberg’s duty on the Eastern Front in Stab./JG 51. I know that he was shot down twice in the summer of 1942. He survived both experiences without wounds. Have you got some informations about those events? Do you know when he was exactly shot down and how (Flak or aircraft)?

Thanks for help,
Artur

[RossGmann]

The following Website gives a little information. It does not say how he was shot down

www.luftwaffe.cz/muncheberg.html

On 22 July 1942, Müncheberg was posted to the Eastern Front to join JG 51. On 5 September, he recorded his 100th victory. On 9 September, he was awarded the Schwertern (Nr 19) following his 103rd victory. Müncheberg achieved 33 victories over Russian aircraft (84 – 116). However, Müncheberg was shot down twice during his four weeks on the Eastern Front.

(I believe the four weeks listed above should read four Months)

Kind regards
Ross

[Klaus Schiffler]

There is no documentary evidence that Joachim Müncheberg was ever shot down on the eastern front although his aircraft was damaged on two occasion and he was able to reach his airfield and land safely. His aircraft is not even listed in the loss/damage table so it is assumed that the damage was very light.

The claim that he was shot down comes from the recollection of Günther Schack. I do not know when he made this claim but memories do not get better with age.

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

Some time ago I discussed this issue with Ota Jirovec and Gordon Raddock. It appears that there is no loss list information that is included about these alleged incidents in regards to the relevant Die Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 volume by Dr. Jochen Prien. This does not conclusively prove that these incidents did not occur but rather that there is no documentary evidence pertaining to them. It may very well be that he was shot down as Feldwebel Günther Schack mentioned in a dairy entry that he (Müncheberg) had been shot down twice during his time on the Eastern Front, if I recall correctly, but there is no loss list information about these incidents (if they ever occurred). Most likely his aircraft was simply lightly damaged in combat. Perhaps someone else would care to comment on this?

Horrido!

Leo

[G.R.Morrison]

Not much to add, only a clarification as to what is, and is not to be found in the Quartermaster's loss lists. IF the aircraft came down within German lines, and the pilot was not wounded, the only mention would be the WNr. and percentage of damage, together with the date, unit and location of course.

Some units were more 'detail-oriented' than others, and unfortunately for us, the JG 51 was among those LEAST-likely to include a Kennung in a loss report, which makes it even less likely to learn from this source what M's machine may have looked like.

Sorry I don't have a better answer for you, GRM

[Jan Bobek]

What is behind words "shot down"? (abgeschossen)

If a fighter plane is damaged, belly landed, pilot is safe and later the a/c is repaired - I can imagine that this event (especially if it happened twice and to a famous guy) could be described as shooting down.

[Klaus Schiffler]

Günther Schack apparently never made the claim that he witnessed Müncheberg having been shot down and what his source for such a claim is is not known. I don't think that Müncheberg was ever shot down in the West or in North Africa and due to his skill in fighter v. fighter combat, it makes it unlikely that he was shot down by a Russian either.

[NBE1942]

Originally Posted by Klaus Schiffler

Günther Schack apparently never made the claim that he witnessed Müncheberg having been shot down and what his source for such a claim is is not known. I don't think that Müncheberg was ever shot down in the West or in North Africa and due to his skill in fighter v. fighter combat, it makes it unlikely that he was shot down by a Russian either.

And what about the case on December 12, 1942 when Muncheberg was shot down in combat with P-40s in North Africa?
BTW, as it was said earlier JG51 records are not too much detailed. It is possible that Muncheberg was a pilot of one of the stab JG51 Me-109s listed in casualties without pilot recognition.

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by NBE1942

And what about the case on December 12, 1942 when Muncheberg was shot down in combat with P-40s in North Africa?
BTW, as it was said earlier JG51 records are not too much detailed. It is possible that Muncheberg was a pilot of one of the stab JG51 Me-109s listed in casualties without pilot recognition.

NBE1942: I am sort of confused by your post. What is the source of your information? Muncheberg was Kommordore of JG 77 in Tunisia, not JG 51. The Gen.Qu.6.Abt records state it was Dec 10 and only that he crashlanded after being hit in the engine during a Luftkampf.

[Nefiakoff]

Hello everyone,

My infos are that Maj. Müncheberg claimed a P-40, his 119th victory, on 10 December 1942 at 15.05 and then he was forced to land because of a hit into engine of his Bf 109 G-2 W.Nr. 10725, 35% damaged (I hope W.Nr. is correct). It was his first victory in this month, the following were achieved on 14 Dec. (nr 120 and 121).
On 10 Dec. Müncheberg led 7 others Bf 109s to intercept raid of about 30 allied aircraft attacking Arco Philaenorum, base of Stab and I/JG 77. It is supposed that Müncheberg was hit by F/Lt Smith from 112 Sqn.
JG 77 claimed 9 victories during whole day (+ 2 unconfirmed), probably most of them during this action.

About his duty on the Eastern Front – almost all the same.
23 July (!) – posted to JG 51 due to Luftwaffe problems with kommodores of JG 3, 51 and 52 (none was ready to action in the air that time).
5 Sept. – 100th victory, 9 Sept. – RK-S, 33 vict. in 4 weeks. Shot down twice (no details).
In a meantime promoted to Major, kommodore JG 77 since 1 October.

Regards

Nef