6 July 1944 - 78th FG versus JG 2

[Leo Etgen]

Hello

Would anyone have any information regarding the encounter between the 78th FG, USAAF and JG 2 northwest of Paris on 6 July 1944? In particular such data as the numbers of fighters involved on either side as well as claims and losses for each of these units? Any help would be very appreciated.

Horrido!

Leo

[Peglar]

Hello Leo,

here is a Paper - maybe it helps a little. Greetings Peglar

[martin75]

Hello Leo,
according Jean-Bernard Frappe in "La Luftwaffe face au débarquement", I/JG2 was engaged early on 6 july against about 30 P-47 northwest, west and southwest of Paris losing 2 aircraft ; Geschwaderstab KG2 lose also one aircraft probably during the same battle.

Greetings

Claude

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Many thanks to both of you for your information regarding the encounter of these two units. I have virtually zero loss list data as concerns JG 2 for the first part of 1944 so this was extremely useful. I should add that it also appears that III./JG 54 was involved in this engagement as JG 2 did not file any claims in the area for what I am aware of yet the 78th FG lost one fighter and its pilot at around 6:15 near Rambouillet. However, Leutnant Alfred Gross of 8./JG 54 did record one claim for a P-47 fighter at 6:38 northeast of Paris and he was the only German pilot that made a claim at this time and area for what I am aware of. It also appears that III./JG 54 did not suffer any losses in this engagement. Please take care both of you and thanks.

Horrido!

Leo

[martin75]

Hello Leo,

apparently, early in the morning of 6th july, III/JG54 was engaged against american fighter bombers 30 kilometers north of Paris, losing five FW190 in the fighting ; Lt Gross claims one P-47 at 06:38 about 15 kilometers north of Paris.

Greetings

Claude

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Claude

Many thanks for your message. Is it known which USAAF unit(s) did III./JG 54 engage and if they suffered any losses? It appears that the 83rd FG was engaged at around 6:15 near Rambouillet and the 84th FS was engaged at around 6:40 northwest of Paris. 1/Lt Robert Mullins of the 83rd FS was lost at around 6:15 near Rambouillet according to the MACR. Many thanks for all your information.

Horrido!

Leo

[Jim P.]

This is a repeat I'm sure of the losses listed in Frappe, but incorporates some other sources:

FW 190A-8, 731094, Maximow, Uffz. Hans, , , 9., JG 77, weiße, 232 +, , , 06-Jul-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with P-38., , FR, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, II, p.1191, , Raum Argentan, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 350151, Ernst, Oblt. Wolfgang, 36, , 9., JG 77, weiße, 231 +, , , 06-Jul-44, Stkp. Injured in FSA due to Luftkampf with P-38., DKiG., FR, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, II, p.1191; Defending the Reich/Mombeeck, p.276, , Raum Argentan, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-, , n.n., , I., I., JG 11, , , , , 06-Jul-44, Luftkampf., , FR, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, II, p.1191, , Ort unbekannt, b, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 172652, Schütz, Uffz. Karl, , III., 8., JG 54, schwarze, 3 + ^^, , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf. FSA. DOW 22-Jul., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.322; Rosipal, JG 54 loss list, , Beaumontes, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 174039, Stratmann, Ltn. Willi, 30, I., 4., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jul-44, Stfhr. WIA due to Luftkampf with 30 P-47s. FSA., DKiG., FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.28; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.21, 322, , Pontoise, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 172642, Wrigge, Uffz. Rudolf, , I., 2., JG 54, rote, 6 +, , , 06-Jul-44, KIA due to Luftkampf., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.322; Rosipal, JG 54 loss list, , Beaumont, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 170646, Wieden, Uffz. Gerhard, , III., 8., JG 54, gelbe, 1 + ^^, , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf. FSA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.322; Rosipal, JG 54 loss list, , Beaumontes, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 170653, Knirsch, Ofhr. Franz, , I., 2., JG 54, rote, 4 +, , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.322; Rosipal, JG 54 loss list, , nördlich Paris, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-7, 430679, Aulinger, Gefr. Otto, , III., 10., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jul-44, MIA, cause unknown., Ring says WNr. 430679 - a dup., FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.28; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.36, 322, , Raum Caen, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8/R6, 172679, Clemens, Ofhr. Christfried, , III., 11., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf., , FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.28; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.36, 322, , Raum Caen, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 171030, Beis, Uffz. Alfred, , I., 1., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jul-44, MIA due to Luftkampf with 30 P-47s., , FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.28; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.21, 322, , Raum Mantes, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8, 731086, Steinkamp, Uffz. Hans-Joachim, , I., 2., JG 54, gelbe, 7 +, , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf. FSA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.322; Rosipal, JG 54 loss list, , Beaumont, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-8/R6, 731065, Kuhn, Ltn. Hans-Joachim, , III., Stab III., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf with P-47s. FSA., , FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.28; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.21, 322, , Bercheres/Houdan, 20km SE of Mantes, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190A-7?, 160492, Pump, Ofhr. Christian, , I., 3., JG 11, rote, 10 +, , , 06-Jul-44, WIA due to Luftkampf. DOW 8-Jul., , FR, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, II, p.1191, , Raum Alençon, 100%, F, , ,
FW 190G, , Zebrowski, Ofhr. Wolfgang, , I., 2., SKG 10, grüne, 7 +, , , 06-Jul-44, FSA due to engine trouble., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.256, 322, , Raum Mayenne, 100%, F, , ,

[domus31]

Hello Peglar,
Your document is very interesting for me, as I am looking on the conditions in which Fw Pfaff was shot on 5th July. From which reference did you extract this paper ?

Thank you

Bruno

[domus31]

Hello Martin,
Would it be possible to have the scan of the previous page of this book as well, as I am interested on fights that took place on 5th July ?
Thank you
Bruno

[martin75]

Hello Bruno,

no problem

Greetings

Claude