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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
31/05/40
According Prien,20 claims for III/JG26 that day According Caldwell (JG 26 Books vol.1),ONLY 14 claims for III/JG26 "Quid" of claims of Lt Westphal (2) stab/III Uffz Burkardt (1) 8/staffel Uffz Brugelmann (1) 8/staffel Fw Gartner (1) 8/staffel Lt Sprick (1) 8/staffel Why this important difference between two excellent authors and WHO is right? Thank's in advance Michel |
#2
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Prien's team's book are more recent, so should be closer to the truth.
And at some stage in the JG 26 books (probably in vol 2), Caldwell says that he is missing some claims |
#3
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Hi Guys
Answer is between twenty-two and twenty four:- 7./JG 26 Klaus Mietusch Hurricane 1540 Georg Beyer Hurricane 1540 Franz Lüders Hurricane 1300......also appears on ASM list, but with 6./JG 26(assume one claim) 8./JG 26 Heinz Ebeling Hurricane 1545 Gerhard Grzymalla Hurricane 1545 Helmut Brugelmann Hurricane 1530 Gustav Sprick Hurricane 1540 9./JG 26 Josef Haibock Spitfire 1540 Erwin Buschella Spitfire 1540 Gerhard Schopfel Spitfire x two 1540(but again one on ASM list) Erwin Busch Hurricane 1540 Stab.III./JG 26 Joachim Müncheberg Lysander 1535, Hurricanes at 1540, 1545, Spitfire 2025 Alfred Burchardt Hurricane 1530 Ernst-Helmut von Berg Hurricane 1540, Lysander 2020 Heinrich Otteking Hurricane 1540 Hans-Jürgen Westphal Hurricane 1540, Spitfire 2015 Josef Gartner Spitfire 2030. Kind Regards Johannes P.S sometimes on the ASM list 8./JG 26 just shows as III./JG 26, same for other Staffels. |
#4
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Quote:
You should see the shedloads of crap that is STILL touted around about the Bf 110, despite the facts I have published years ago (I will not name individuals...).
__________________
Wir greifen schon an! Splinter Live at The Cavern, November 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOCksQUKbI Danke schön, Dank schön ich bin ganz comfortable! |
#5
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Agreed - we seem intent on re-inventing the wheel at every turn. Advent of the www. has simply made the situation worse with websites replicating nonsense which is then duplicated ad nauseam until it becomes acknowledged as fact. Meanwhile publishers are only interested in churning out constant variations on a theme and precious little true progress is made. God help future historians trying to sort the wheat from all this chaff.
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#6
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
There is no confusion ? between Erwin BUSCH and Erwin BUSCHELLA,despite my efforts I don't find a trace of an BUSCHELLA (losse for example)
Michel |
#7
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Hi Guys
I totally agree with the replication. I ignored all previous publications, and worked solely on evidence i.e mikrofilms and flugbücher. The mikrofilms are finite, seems unless there is a discovery in a archive somewhere, but I am still acquiring diaries and flightbooks. My writing partner says "Once published, it's cast in stone" Kind Regards Johannes |
#8
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Rubbish! Unless you writing partner is misconstruing things.
Once published, it's published. If we were to take your writing partner's premise, then everything published about the Battle of Britain since the 1960s is 'cast in stone'. Oh dear! The only things that can be certain are undisputed pieces of information backed up by hard facts. Your partner may be into writing; have they ever done any research...? "Very soon, the big lick" Yeah, right!!!
__________________
Wir greifen schon an! Splinter Live at The Cavern, November 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOCksQUKbI Danke schön, Dank schön ich bin ganz comfortable! |
#9
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Hi John
Well I think he has been misunderstood, he is a avid researcher with dozens of published books. What he ment was once something is published it's "fact", and these "facts" are used by other authors, though they could be very, very wrong. Example in our most recent book(by memory) we list Oskar-Heinz Bar with three unconfirmed Thunderbolts on 27th March 1945, but have recently acquired a copy of his flugbook, which shows that he didn't fly this day, and that they were duplications for those of 27th April 1945 ! Could have been a previous mistype that caused the confusion. Even American habit of putting the month before the day when numerically writing a date causes problems. The fact that something has been in every publication since the beginning of time, doesn't make it correct. Kind Regards Johannes |
#10
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Re: 31/05/40:Missing claims III/JG26
Johannes,
Your first sentence: thanks for qualifying your point. I understand where you are coming from now. However, notwithstanding the 'fact' (sorry, terrible word to use in this context) that other authors use such information, the thing is that the legal tenet of 'He who asserts must prove' SHOULD be used on every single occasion in order to apply the necessary checks and balances to every single incident. Failure to do so results in things being published like Wilhelm-Richard Rößiger being shot down deep inland on 27th September 1940. WHAT??? Your last sentence: again correct. 'Check, check, and check again' is the watch phrase. Check on the reliability and provenance of the source(s). One particular incident would make you blanche if I gave the full details, which I won't as a certain person is a member here...
__________________
Wir greifen schon an! Splinter Live at The Cavern, November 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOCksQUKbI Danke schön, Dank schön ich bin ganz comfortable! |
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