losses & claims of ZG1 for 14th july 1943 - Page 2 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Many Souffan · #11 27th January 2011, 16:10

Hello Nikita.

you write:BTW, do you know were there any losses fow Normandie-Nemen for this date except De Tedesco's Jak-9?

I don't understand what do you mean ? the victories or other losses of Normandie for this date?

By advance Thank you..

Evgeny Velichko · #12 29th January 2011, 11:03

Many:

What losses NN had on 14 july?

Many Souffan · #13 29th January 2011, 13:43

Hello Evgeny.

As I said to Nikita there was only one French loss: Lt Charles de Tedesco in his Yak-9 coded white 4 between 2 and 4 PM approx.

Thank you

Evgeny Velichko · #14 13th July 2017, 10:22

Bf 110F-2, 5107, Matschiowalli, Uffz. Willi, , , 3., ZG 1, , S9+TH, , , 14-Jul-43, Crew KIA due to Flak., Staritza per loss., Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.143, , 3km südwestlich Krapiwna, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Hans Westermann, ,

Handwatches were found, and it shows 15:17 as a time when it stopped. Considering a wreck details, I would suggest it stopped right when Bf110F-2 plunged into ground.

Courtois Laurent · #15 4th April 2021, 09:39

Hello,

TheBf 110G-2, 6327, I., Stab I., ZG 1,S9+FB, was probably shot down by the 731 anti-tank battalion of the 5th tank corps.

Report of the 5th tank corps :

"731-й истребительно-противотанковый артиллерийский дивизион в подчинении командира 24 ТБР сосредоточен овраги 1,5 южнее Ржевка. Боев не вел, арт. огнем сбит один "Ме-110". В течение дня боев не вела. "

"The 31st anti-tank artillery battalion, subordinate to the commander of the 24th TBR, is concentrated in ravines 1.5 to the south of Rzhevka. He did not fight, artilllery fire shot down one Me-110. During the day, she did not fight."

ravines 1.5 to the south of Rzhevka is 3,5 km SE of Krapivna (Raume von Uljanowo).

It is very damaging that a French aviation magazine (Aces n ° 11 and 12) attributed the two yaks destroyed by the flak (information confirmed by all the reports of the Soviet units on the spot) to the ace French Marcel Albert.
Whereas already since 1988 CJ Ehrengardt in Normandie-Niemen Heimdal gave a more reasonable lead.

Besides, the French reports lie, because the Soviets only confirm that day a Me-110 for the Normandie-Niemen shot down by Lieutenant Béguin (who shares it with P. Pouyade).

And the magazine Aces lies even more by attributing to him 2 victories totally imagine for July 14, 1943.

p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }

TigerTimon · #16 5th April 2021, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko

Handwatches were found, and it shows 15:17 as a time when it stopped. Considering a wreck details, I would suggest it stopped right when Bf110F-2 plunged into ground.

Question:
Would Luftwaffe pilots have their watches synchronised to local time or to German time (CET) or was this the same timezone nonetheless?

Courtois Laurent · #17 5th April 2021, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerTimon

Question:
Would Luftwaffe pilots have their watches synchronised to local time or to German time (CET) or was this the same timezone nonetheless?

Hello Tiger Timon.

Be careful, there is a time difference between the Germans (same as Berlin) and the Soviets (Moscow hour). There is therefore a German hour and a Soviet hour, with a delay varying from 1 hour to 2 hours.

15h17 german times it's 16h17 soviet times.

Have good week.

Evgeny Velichko · #18 19th May 2021, 18:17

Dear Lourent.
There are many Me110 claims by soviet AA units on that day in that area.

Johannes · #19 20th May 2021, 11:17

Hi Many

Three claims this day. One in the West by Gottfried Kayl, a Spitfire at 1850 hrs 5./ZG1.

In Russia:-

Heinz Hogeweg an Il-4 at 1150 hrs 700 metres altitude with 3./ZG1

Walter Jung a LaGG-3 at 1315 hrs 300 metres with 2./ZG1.

Would you happen to know the forenames of the claimants listed, and would be pilots not BF's.

for 12.07.1943 Lt Schmidtal of 6./ZG1 a Spitfire at 0930 hrs 20 metres.
Ofw Hermann(not Wilfried) of 1./ZG1 an Il-4 at 1926 hrs 200 metres

for 26.01.1943 Lt Busch a DB-3 at 1020 hrs 600 metres with II./ZG1 (Franz?)

for 14.01.1943 Ofw Gruber of 5./ZG1 a R-5 at 1325 hrs bodennähe

for 21.11.1942 Uffz Motsch of 3./ZG1 an Il-2 at 0730 hrs 200 metres

for 08.09.1943 Lt "Schubel" of 2./ZG1 a B-24 at 1746 hrs 800 metres

for 10.10.1943 Uffz Becker of 1./ZG1 a B-17 at 1530 hrs 5000 metres, and another B-17 at 1545 hrs 5000 metres.

for 01.12.1943 Lt Oxfort of 7./ZG1 a Mosquito at 1145 hrs 100 metres.

for 23.01.1944 Fw Müller of 5./ZG1 a B-24 at 1213 hrs 6500 metres, and another B-24 on 23.02.1944 at 1213 hrs 6500 hrs......possibly a duplication, therefore correct date being in January. Also a B-24 on 26.06.1944 at 0945 hrs 6000 metres, and a B-24 on 29.05.1944 at 1013 hrs 6500 metres.

for 02.04.1944 Lt "Weissmann" of 6./ZG1 a B-17 at 1135 hrs 6000 metres, and Oblt Zweigg of 5./ZG1 a B-24 at 1147 hrs 4600 metres.

for 19.04.1944 Uffz Buchberger of 5./ZG1 a BD-3 at 1540 hrs 50 metres

for 06.05.1944 Lt Miller ! of 4./ZG1 a Boston at 1634 hrs

for 10.05.1944 Oblt Fragg of 5./ZG1 an Il-2 at 1459 hrs 2000 metres

for 29.05.1944 Oblt Frithof of II./ZG1 a B-24 at 1015 hrs 5000 metres, and Fw Held of 4./ZG1 a B-24 at 1032 hrs 3000 metres, also a name I just cannot work out Uffz "Maia" or "Staja" of 5./ZG1 a B-24 at 1012 hrs 6500 metres.

for 26.06.1944 Fw Braun of 4./ZG1 a B-24 at 0947 hrs 6500 metres E.V

for 16.07.1944 Lt Püschka of II./ZG1 a P-51 at 1035 hrs 3000 metres.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Evgeny Velichko · #20 20th May 2021, 13:30

Quote: