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  #11  
Old 20th May 2018, 14:43
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

I dare not to say what P-47 is involved here, but if a little remark is permitted re Peter's post: St. Germain-de-Coulamer is not near Metz in the east of France, but 30 km SE of Alençon or, from a different angle, 45 km NW of Le Mans, so in the west.


Forum readers familiar with the Mayenne or River Sarthe region may recognize the landscape?



Regards,


Leendert
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  #12  
Old 20th May 2018, 15:09
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Regarding Balcunas, his plane crashed near St. Germain de Coulamer which is some 26 km SW of Alencon or maybe 35 km NW of Le Mans, i.e. not near Metz. Ooops, ..... Looks like Leendert beat me to this.
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  #13  
Old 21st May 2018, 12:19
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Short Stuff Short Stuff is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Hello,

For me, it's a P-47 "Bubbletop", not a "Razorback".
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  #14  
Old 21st May 2018, 17:19
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Hello Didier
I would agree with you.
All the photos in various books/magazines show the camouflaged razorback's but all those that show the bubbletop are in natural metal finish.
Some photos captioned June 44 have no invasion stripes, so did the Group take no part until post D-day period ?
Alex
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  #15  
Old 21st May 2018, 18:41
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Hello guys.

Some interesting aspects on the Picture showed here.

1- The airplane seems to have flattened out before crashing, like a flat spinning or something like that, from very low altitude. This is my humble opinion...the weather, as it was put here, seems rather on the Summer and the grass seems dry, very dry. Perhaps this dryness does not give us an idea of the "way" the airplane skidded out on the belly landing trial...or, as I am assuming (interpreting), it may have crashed in a vertical way, like a flat spin at low altitude (or recovering from a spin at low altitude). One can see NO tracks on the grass from the huge mass of the P-47, where it may have skidded, literally "scrapping" the soil, etc...So, in my humble opinion, the crash is rather co-related to some kind of vertical spinning (flat) or vertical drop movement.

2- The Brazilian Air Force (FAB) suffered at least one fatal crash of an earlier D-27 model (actually P-47D-27-RE Thunderbolt s/n 42-26774), in Italy. The pilot was training before combat and put some high G after a dive, whilst turning. The commands were blocked and he went inverted. The pilot tried to bail out, but at low level, the chute never opened. This happened on the 7th November 1944, and 2nd/Lt Oldegard Olsen Sapucaia (BO-34) was killed. Next day, the 1st Brazilian Fighter Group (attached to the 350th FG) received a technical bulletin (T.O) informing that all machined were grounded and needed to add a VERTICAL DORSAL FIN to the fuselage (nearby to the tail). The Republic company found that with some speeds, the “hard” use of ailerons and elevators could induce the blocking of commands and put the machine inverted, entering an inverted spin. Well, my humble guess is that Lt. Frank Fazekas crash fits better to the image…"done a tight spiral into the ground" near Lederzeele. But this is only a guess. One may need to check how many accidents due to “blocking of controls” happened before that Technical Order from the Republic Company or within 22nd Fighter Squadron.

Most humbly yours,
Adriano Silva Baumgartner, ASV 00.344
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  #16  
Old 21st May 2018, 20:03
KM1957 KM1957 is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

There were camouflaged bubble tops in the 9th Air Force, and for one example, it comes from the 22nd Fighter Squadron. P-47D-26-RA, serial 42-28404 was coded 3T-C "Sex Express". It was overall o.d. on the upper surfaces and natural metal on the lower. There were also examples also from the 365th, 366th, and 367th I can find photos for fairly quickly. Yes, the 36th was active priot to the invasion, so the absence of invasion stripes means it either one of the losses in May of 1944 or possibly a later loss after the stripes were pretty much removed. My hunch, and that is all it is, is this is a May loss.
Back to which pre-D-Day pilots and cause of the crashes, please refer to the four MACRs; two pilots were seen to spin-in, one bailed out and one was listed as simply crashing. If as mentioned above it appears the plane spun in, then possibly Deabler or Fazekas are possible. But again, without a serial to see, who knows.

Kent
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  #17  
Old 21st May 2018, 21:48
rpeck350 rpeck350 is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Lt. Frank Fazekas in 42-75525 is the only one of the May loses that Kent has posted that comes OD/Neutral grey from the factory. The other three serials listed are in the series of Natural metal P-47D's .
Look at Didier's P-47 web sight I can recognize many of the other P-47 around these serial numbers.

Rick
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  #18  
Old 22nd May 2018, 08:10
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Quote:
42-25886 with Maj. Richard T. Deabler being KIA; he flew through a train explosion and was reported to have spun-in near Longwy.
Crashed in fact at Gougnies (Belgium).

ClinA-78
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  #19  
Old 22nd May 2018, 15:40
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

More info (mostly in French, but also US reports) about 42-25886 here: http://m.marloie.wikeo.be/richard-t-deabler.html


Regards,


Leendert
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  #20  
Old 22nd May 2018, 17:25
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: US Fighter shot down-P-47D?

Looking at the code letter on the plane it appears there have been two suggestions. U-3T or C-3T, with the U or C to the left of the star and the 3T to the right of the star. It is possible the bottom of the letter is totally in shadow, which is why you don't see it. If the letter is a C, something seems to have cut through the top of the C. If the letter is U, then something seems to have cut through the right side of the letter. I believe there is an access panel (to the tail wheel strut) located about where the right side of the "U" is missing. If that panel has come off, would that leave it looking something like what we see? (There is a similar access panel on the other side of the plane.)

I have tried to find a good closeup photo on the various P-47 walkarounds on the web to see if there is a photo showing the panel and the exact location, but have not had any luck locating one yet.

Last edited by RSwank; 23rd May 2018 at 20:02.
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