Lw claims 12 Oct 1944 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Joerg Dietsche · #1 9th May 2006, 19:14

The Lw claimed 8 P-38 on 12 Oct 1944 in the Aachen area between 1510 to 1520 hrs. Can these losses be confirmed by units, pilot names and were there German losses as well?

Thanks
Jörg

John Beaman · #2 9th May 2006, 20:56

Various units of JG 2, flying Fw 190A-8 machines claimed 8 P-38s on this day in the area. They show 1 Fw 190 lost during the battle.

Laurent Rizzotti · #3 9th May 2006, 22:27

Two P-38 of the 367th FG and one of the 370th FG were lost during this day according to the MACR list.

But:
1) they may have been shot down by Flak, or lost to another cause
2) if a P-38 was shot up but the pilot bailed out or was shot over Allied held territory there will be no MACR

So you need to learn more about both units above. A pilot of the 367th FG claimed a victory, so it may be the unit attacked by JG 2.

By the way 7 of the P-38 claimed in the afternoon were claimed by JG 2, the 8th by JG 77 which also claimed two P-47s in the same period.

shooshoobaby · #4 9th May 2006, 23:58

History of 9th AF by Kenn Rust: 12 0ct, 44
365th FG - 4 victories no losses P - 47
367th FG - 2 victories 2 lost P - 38
368th FG - 3 victories 1 lost P - 47
474th FG - 3 victories no losses P - 38

Joerg Dietsche · #5 10th May 2006, 21:07

Gentlemen,

thanks for the information.

Joerg

yogybär · #6 11th May 2006, 14:17

8th AF didn't have P38 then, had it?

This would mean, that there was an overclaim-factor by JG2 of 8:2 or even higher, if the sources above is correct.

Laurent Rizzotti · #7 11th May 2006, 22:44

Just to eliminate one possible American loss:

Three German Flak guns 3,7 cm shots down the P38 J 42-67806. The pilot was killed . It was 2 nd Lt. Frederic I. Barlow from the 370 th FG, (MACR 9108). Two P38 made in Oberkleinich / Hunsrück area an attack against a locomotive. His wingman 2nd Lt. Francis M. Miron saw the Lightning crash.
The plane was found in Oktober 1990 by the Arbeitsgemeinschaft LuftkriegsgeschichteRheinland.

Source: database of http://www.crashplace.de/ (contributor for this entry is Mr Ruediger Kaufmann)

So that leaves only two P-38s to be shot down (probably) by JG 2.

Joerg Dietsche · #8 19th May 2006, 12:17

Thanks to you all,

Laurent, Barlow's MACR is 9536 by the way.

J.D.

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