5th BG losses ?

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Has anyone anything on how many losses by Squadron, the 5th BG had in WW2 ?
Thanks
Alex

[Edward]

There is no one good published source that I am aware of.

The best two resources on losses would be the Pacific Wrecks website and Joanne Emerick's book on the 31st Bomb Squadron, Courage Before Every Danger.

There is a group history published right after the war, Bomber Barons (1946), and a book from Turner Publishing, Bomber Barons 5th Bombardment Group Heavy (2000) - the latter is not recommended for information on losses but it is one of the few books out there.

https://www.pacificwrecks.com/units/...5bg/index.html

http://couragebeforeeverydanger.com/index.html

[SteveR]

I've got Courage Before Every Danger and unfortunately there's no table or Appendix listing all of the squadron's losses.

I can go through the text looking for them sometime this week. Are you looking for details of the losses (date, serial number, crew, cause, etc.) or just the total number? Operational only or including accidents?

[Alex Smart]

Thank you Both for your response.
I have found several from the Joe Baugher Serials site but there could well be more .
Thanks
Alex

[Frank Olynyk]

The formatting is messy, but this is what I have found in the MACR files.

MACR Air Force Group Squadron Aircraft Type Serial Year Serial Sequence Loss Date
16531 7th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 58th Bomb Squadron 4/23/1942
16371 7th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-17 6/6/1942
800 7th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-17 6/7/1942
801 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 9118 10/4/1942
799 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 2525 6/10/1943
85 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40250 6/16/1943
16007 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40685 7/20/1943
182 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 9128 7/27/1943
397 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24F 42 40647 7/28/1943
804 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40653 9/28/1943
725 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 72794 10/1/1943
803 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40210 10/10/1943
1176 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 41155 11/3/1943
1253 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40636 12/4/1943
1620 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group Headquarters B-24D 41 24186 12/30/1943
15147 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24 3/5/1944
9146 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D-40 42 48752 3/30/1944
5085 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 72820 4/23/1944
5083 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J-110 42 110109 5/5/1944
5092 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D-72 42 72828 5/12/1944
5524 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24J 42 110136 5/21/1944
15655 13th Air Force 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24 026 11/7/1944

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Alex Smart]

Thank you Frank, most welcome info.
Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Additional to my earlier post and Frank's response.

06/06/1942.
B17F's, five a/c were involved on the operation.
The result was that two a/c were lost.
MACR 16371 - B17F - Pilot : Kramer.
and
MACR 16541 - B17F - Pilot : Porter.
Both a/c were 72BS a/c,
Sadly there are no a/c serial numbers for either report.

So how to find the serial numbers of the five a/c that took part on the operation that day ?

Thanks,
Alex

[Alex Smart]

Found the answer in B17 Fortress Master Log by Dave Osborne.

Kramer - 41-2529.
Porter - 41-2415.
BUT
Pacific Wrecks has this for Porter's a/c,
41-9212

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Alex Smart

Found the answer in B17 Fortress Master Log by Dave Osborne.

Kramer - 41-2529.
Porter - 41-2415.
BUT
Pacific Wrecks has this for Porter's a/c,
41-9212

Alex

Alex

These early Fortresses are a headache.
If you look at Osborne's list he also says 41-2529 was assigned to 72BS 5BG 8 Aug 1942, that is two months after he then says it was MIA!

With regard to 41-2415 he (and Roger Freeman) wrote in 1998 that it was w/o 11 May 1944, while now he claims it was delivered to 31BS 5BG at Hickam on 10 Nov 1942 and after that shot down during the BoM 5 June 1942, ie this time a five month negative discrepancy!

Looking at 41-9212 Osborne said in 1998 it was w/o 8 Aug 1942 and he has not changed his mind on his present list

I also checked what the Aviation Archeology site had to say with regard to the date 5 June 1942 and the only loss listed is 41-2661 from 31BS 5BG which had a cat 5 incident when it force landed with engine failure (being out of gas) at Lanai Island, Hawaii. In spite of the initial terminal report, it was (according to Osborne) repaired and put back in service by late July.

Much of these discepancies are no doubt to be found in badly kept records (not to mention incredibly sloppily hand written record cards by totally non-dedicated clerks), misleading reports, faulty/mistaken entries etc etc. Some record cards are beyond belief....

If you ever (for example) come across what a friend of mine calls the "Clark Field mess" you will know what I am talking about....

Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

From my thread on the other forum.
"026" is shown on the updated Joe Baugher lists as being
44-41026.
So another problem solved.
Alex