German night fighter top aces by NJG

[knusel]

Dear Johannes,

I found the book at the German amazon.de and told my wife I would be glad to receive it on my birthday.
Meanwhile, I found that entry. Would you be so kind to check if it is valid ?
http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_...det&wert1=3364

I wish you a splendid weekend,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

The Foto is of Krause, though a different one accompanies Obermaier's book. Hope you are getting the 2nd edition(which I have) But first edition is nice to compare to. Herr Obermaier's work certainly did evolve.
Even his second edition has one ghost pilot ......Emil Pusch. This pilot is interesting as I did find other information from a different source namely that he was a NJG 2 pilot with 30 victories. But I could find nothing official for him!

Also with Frank Liesendahl he had 50 victories in the first edition, reduced to about five by the second edition, but I can reduce this further to none.

Anyway enjoy your Birthday.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Hello Johannes,

I think the link I gave to my wife is for the 1st Edition. Looking forward to it.

In my book collection I found Liesendahl and Pusch in the following:
Toliver/Constable (1968)
- Hptm Frank Liesendahl JG 53 and JG2, RK, kills: unknown
- Ofw Emil Pusch unit unkown, RK, kills: unknown (83?)
Musciano (1982)
- Frank Liesendahl, kills: 50 but the first sentence of the CV on p98 reads: "Frank Liesendahl wasn't one of the so-called Experten, anyhow his name shall be mentioned here, because he was one of the most experienced and leading fighter bomber pilots."

But I suppose you have these very books already.

Have a nice Saturday, sincerely

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

I found the Toliver/Constable books full of contradictions, errors and speculation. I wouldn't believe too much of it. Basically they have copied other less than perfect works. Basically it just doesn't add-up. With Obermaier he is vague with some pilots, others he has used rudders and abschüße lists to arrive at totals, and generally it does add-up. I think the Toliver/Constable carried any errors rather than mistakes on. My old friend and author John Foreman always says "once printed it's cast in stone" and in my experience that's just about right.

Do try to acquire Obermaier's second edition, as I said before his work/lives hobby did evolve greatly. Jochen Prien's work makes sense, and actually has surprisingly few little errors. I would say the actual claims listed are usually 99.5% correct.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Hello Johannes,

you mentioned what you called ghost pilots. I think one of the grand experts, e.g. you, should write a book on these guys who are wrongly associated with too high scores or who never existed. If such a book elucidated the reasons why, it would become a best-seller !

I wish you a splendid Wednesday,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

I believe the expression "Ghost pilot" means never existed. Variations on what a pilot is believed to have got and actual are for many reason i.e points system, pilots obscurity/death, whether or not unconfirmed are included in the total, and just exaggeration..........and this is usually not by the pilot himself.
Perhaps also in rare case properganda!

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

..one possible origin of ghost pilots also might be spelling errors.
e.g. the Me 410 Trenke/Treicke issue.

Michael

[knusel]

Update:
NJG1 Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer
NJG2 Heinz Rökker
NJG3 Paul Zorner
NJG4 Wilhelm Herget
NJG5 Werner Hoffmann
NJG6 Martin Becker
NJG11 Kurt Welter (dubious score)
NJG100 Gustav Francsi
NJG101 Johann Krause
NJG102 Dieter Kehrberg
NJG200 Wolfgang Jank & Josef Kociok

[knusel]

This interesting article includes a table about the rare Do 17 nightfighter kills of NJG1 and NJG2:
https://www.key.aero/article/screech-owls-over-britain

See also
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45031