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Old 29th June 2020, 18:14
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
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Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Apologies for the length of this post, but I am trying to identify the makeup of the Luftwaffe units that attacked a convoy southwest of the Isle of Wight at approximately 15.30 pm on 21 Jul 1940. The combat reports and ORBs for the Hurricane pilots of 43 and 238 Squadrons reported the presence of Do 17s and Bf 110s dive bombing the convoy, escorted by Bf 109s. The claims and loss lists for this date identify Bf 109s of III/JG27 and Bf 110s of V/LG1, but the identity of the Do 17 unit is unknown (could these have been Bf 110s misidentified as Do 17s?). But there is also evidence that Ju 87s of I/StG77 took part in the attack, and may have departed before the Hurricanes arrived. The Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung for this date states: '21 Ju 87 I/StG77 (start 15.45 hrs [EST]) Attack on convoy in Quadrant 2139 (30 km south of Bournemouth)'. It then goes on to detail the ships that had been attacked. Another account comes from Stuka Squadron: Stukagruppe '77 - Luftwaffe's Fire Brigade, Peter Smith's history of the unit, who includes details from the logbooks of Fw Knauer and his radio operator/gunner Uffz Sellhorn who took part in this raid. Also, Peter Smith's Naval Warfare in the English Channel 1939-1945, describes how 'it became the turn of the Cherbourg-based Stukas to attack and they hit a convoy off the Isle of Wight. Yet another source is Ludwig von Eimannsberger, author of Zerstörer Gruppe. A History of V./(Z)LG1, who describes the unit escorting the Ju 87s that were assigned to attack a convoy off the Isle of Wight on this date. Finally, is it possible that Erpr.Gr.210 took part in this attack, even though their base was over 300 miles away? The Bf 110 of Oblt Habisch and Uffz Elfner (S9+CK) returned with combat damage on this date and, as far as I am aware, only Erpr.Gr.210 was using the Bf 110 in the dive bombing role at this time and yet some RAF pilots clearly believed that Bf110s were dive bombing the convoy. Sgt Little of 238 Squadron states: 'On approaching a convoy South of the Needles, enemy aircraft were observed dive-bombing it', he identified the Luftwaffe formation as Bf 110s and Bf 109s. Any help in untangling this would be much appreciated.
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Old 29th June 2020, 18:19
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

I believe that the units as per the Einzelmeldung statse it clearly. Erprobungsgruppe 210 did not operate further west until later in the Battle of Britain but John Vasco will no doubt advise
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Old 29th June 2020, 20:45
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Peter,

You may already have this but....

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Old 29th June 2020, 23:39
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Thanks for this Andy, no I am not familiar with this source, can you tell me a bit more about it and how I can access other similar records?
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Old 29th June 2020, 23:40
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Chris, thanks for your reply. Do you have any thoughts on the Do 17 unit?
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Old 29th June 2020, 23:46
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Stuka units had Do 17s but I think it is mistaken identity in the heat of battle. Don't forget also Do 17s were horizontal bombers not dive bombers

Last edited by Chris Goss; 30th June 2020 at 07:51.
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Old 30th June 2020, 10:56
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Peter,

This was from an Anlage to Lagebericht 335 and can be found on-line here. It's page 48 in the file.

However, I have these files as either jpgs or pdfs - contact me via pm if you are interested.

I think that I have copies of the daily Lageberichten (effectively high level reports) for the period Sep 39 through to Nov 41.

They cover general operations (sometimes referencing specific units); overview of weather conditions; recce results; results of enemy bombing i.e. where did bombs actually land (could be interesting for someone trying to establish a relationship between Bomber command claims and what actually happened). Attached are various appendices (anlage) including the shipping claims items.

The Anlage for the Anti-shipping claims usually appears in the month following the period covered. So, the July 1940 listing apears in the Aug 1940 file.

Sometimes there are more details regarding anti-shipping claims in the daily Lageberichten - I checked back for 21 July 1940 and there is very little info in the corresponding daily file.
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Old 30th June 2020, 12:32
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Thanks Andy - very helpful, will contact you re. files.

Peter
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Old 1st July 2020, 00:50
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Mitchell View Post
Peter,

This was from an Anlage to Lagebericht 335 and can be found on-line here. It's page 48 in the file.

However, I have these files as either jpgs or pdfs - contact me via pm if you are interested.

I think that I have copies of the daily Lageberichten (effectively high level reports) for the period Sep 39 through to Nov 41.

They cover general operations (sometimes referencing specific units); overview of weather conditions; recce results; results of enemy bombing i.e. where did bombs actually land (could be interesting for someone trying to establish a relationship between Bomber command claims and what actually happened). Attached are various appendices (anlage) including the shipping claims items.

The Anlage for the Anti-shipping claims usually appears in the month following the period covered. So, the July 1940 listing apears in the Aug 1940 file.

Sometimes there are more details regarding anti-shipping claims in the daily Lageberichten - I checked back for 21 July 1940 and there is very little info in the corresponding daily file.

Excellent Andy. Shame they stop at 28th August 1940. Wanted to see them go through to the end of the BoB. Wonderful couple of pararaphs about the parachute & cable encountered at Kenley on 18th August!
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Old 1st July 2020, 07:25
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Re: Luftwaffe Units in Convoy Attack 21 July 1940

John, these reports do go on through from 1939 to the middle of 1941, so you get the entire BoB/Blitz period. Just go to the main Luftwaffe page and look for anything with Lagebericht West in the title. They generally follow in sequence but are occasionally interrupted by a file on something else.
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