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Old 27th August 2008, 15:41
Grozibou
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"Don't you know who I am?"

21st August 2008, 20:42

CJE
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Re: 1939-45 airpower and professional historians

What outstanding historical work did you publish you nameless "Hawk"?

And what about yours?



21st August 2008, 22:23

CJE
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Re: 1939-45 airpower and professional historians

Reply : And what about yours Mr. CJE?

Quote:
CJE to Grozibou : Are you kidding? Don't you know who I am?

Grozibou : - Certainly the most modest person I ever heard of - a delightful person.

But - sorry - I didn't answer your question directly. Most persons here know the answer anyway. What I published is this :

1. Adolf Galland's world-famous book "The First and the Last". Famous French publisher Robert Laffont had published an incredibly shortened and poor French edition (not translation!) 1954 under the excellent title, I have to admit, of "Jusqu'au bout [All the way] sur nos Messerschmitt". I got a copy 1954 and I was delighted. I was 13 years old.

As a grown-up I discovered that the French edition was not good enough even for the dustbin. It is absolutely outrageous, a massive fraud with the money of all persons, including myself, who paid for a copy. I mentioned two of the worst examples here often already : on 22 June 1941 Galland, being shot down (by a Polish fighter pilot it seems), mentioned his "jammed ejection seat" (sic) and "his second parachute" (sic). These are merely two examples : the whole book is of the same quality. This is the normal stuff with almost all translations. As a rule, translation = fraud and nonsense. Exceptions are few and far between.

1984 I was not a publisher but a highly-experienced, top-level international translator having worked within, or for, Siemens, AEG, Saab, Asea (now ABB - not ABBA!), EDF, aérospatiale, OECD, the European Patent Office and many more firms. I won a NATO selective recruiting examination (the French word is CONCOURS de sélection) to become "the" new technical translator (only one was needed) at NATO headquarters in Bruxelles, and I won with breathtaking superiority for "the others" were far, far behind me (100 qualified, selected candidates), which does not mean that I am marvellous (only fair) but that apparently most "translators" don't deserve the name. To me this examination was easy but you should have seen the green faces of my competitors and the tears in their eyes when I left the examination room 45 minutes before the end. Conclusion : BEWARE OF TRANSLATIONS, especially of books, and quite especially of aviation books! A cokpit roof becomes an "ejection seat" easily!

This is why I, at first, phoned most French publishing companies in Paris 1984 (at the time almost all non-local publishers were in Paris, in one small particular part of the city only, which I found really ludicrous like many other French features, i.a; fashion), and offered them my French translation. It was easy to do : I was living in Paris too, my telephone calls were local calls. All these females I spoke to - not one single man! - "visibly", or rather "hearibly", were totally unable to imagine that a book on WW II air war could be interesting or even profitable. They all just are dreaming of famous NOVEL authors all the time, those who are going to win the prestigious Goncourt and other prizes. Females! So eventually I was forced to realise that this was a dead-end : no chance. But "I never give up", as my GERMAN ex-wife put it - maybe you noticed? There was only one solution : becoming a publisher and publishing the book myself. This I did in spite of all the risks. I worked for approx. 6 months on the translation (no salary!) and I had it printed (this was not easy but very expensive, today it would be about 60,000 euros or so and I had got no money at all). Eventually 27,000 copies were sold or... stolen from me by "businessmen" (booksellers, wholesale dealers) who thoroughly and completely ruined me entirely. I lost everything because of these crooks after a total of 31 years of hard work.

CJE, you certainly are acutely aware of this problem : getting paid for what you delivered, in France and Belgium.

I already mentioned that my translation immediately got a fairly high-level prize for author Adolf Galland and very positive reviews (in France and Belgium) except in "Le Fana". I didn't add nor cut one single word in the main text but of course I added numerous explanatory footnotes and about 100 pages of new photographs and annexes at the end of the volume. In these footnotes I explained, for example, the meaning of GPU, RLM and KdF, of "Gruppe" and many other things which an ordinary French reader has no way to know, like "der Alte", the old man (the boss, le patron).

This book was a resounding success and it has been, for many years already, one of the fundamental books for all historians of WW II and of the nazi period. It will remain so forever. A few months ago one of the most senior members of LEMB gave the advice of reading my French translation rather than the poor English one. Coming from a Briton this is simply unique!

I don't think you, CJE, ever published anything of the same historical importance. You asked me directly and aggressively, I am only giving you the answer.

2. The success of the aforementioned book had many effects including the 1985 visit, in my Paris office (55, rue de Varenne), of an unkown Mr. Paul Martin who was an aviation enthusiast, was in particular interested in the 1939-40 French Air Force and had written a big manuscript already, "just for his own private pleasure". Of course my reaction was exactly what he had been hoping for and expecting : I said that this was extremely interesting and I would like to PUBLISH IT. He had skillfully led me to make just this statement (and I did mean it). What Martin told me showed that we shared exactly the same views on the 1940 French Campaign : the French air force had fought very hard, heroically, had suffered heavy losses (this was an exaggeration but we were still less well-informed than today) BUT had inflicted even heavier losses on the enemy, so that as a whole they could be proud of the result even though they mourned hundreds of aircrew killed in air battles or by Flak etc. When I received his manuscript 1988 - and it was hand-written, which nowadays is VERY unusual! - I was very puzzled for I didn't find many air battles which I thought I remembered and he didn't mention, or French losses only but no victories. This was very strange. Eventually I discovered that P. Martin was really interested in French LOSSES only, French successes and victories being unimportant. The book had been announced in publicity, it was about to be printed so it was too late to cancel it (which I would have done otherwise) and demand a new, balanced manuscript : losses all right but victories too : BOTH! Martin's list of French fighter victories (the "sure" ones only, no "probables") takes 9 of his 294 pages, which is 3.6 %, let us say 3.7 % all in all. Devoting over 96 % of a book on the French Air Force to losses only is a bit strange to say the least.

Even general Jean Accart, one of the top aces of 1940 and the most clever person I ever met, was surprised by this bias and he made a corresponding remark in his foreword but he was much too nice : "In many air battles we won victories and came back without any losses : of course these combats are to be found in books published during the war and above all after its end." In other words, he wrote that if you are looking for French victories you'll have to look for them in other books, which really is something! This manuscript probably is a worldwide unique example of an author stressing the losses of his own country but ignoring own successes almost completely. When I read Accart's hand-written preface 1988 I was puzzled for I was far from being through with Martin's dire manuscript but later I realised what Martin had done and that Accart was right as usual. It was quite simply impossible to publish "THAT" just as it was. It wouldn't have sold 100 copies, or perhaps 500, given time (years), to masochists and sadists. Let us forget some other big flaws if you want to be nice to P. Martin. A few months before the release of the book I was COMPELLED to add - in a hurry - an anthology of much more balanced, previously published texts in front of P. Martin's loss and corpse-list and, after it, an extremely concentrated digest of my own, much more optimistic and objective, remarks and conclusions on the FC (about 10 % of their actual length) ; I didn't forget to underline the bravery of German, British, Polish and Czech airmen too as well as of the Belgian and Dutch soldiers. I sacrificed myself in favour of Martin, having my pages printed in a much too small, ugly police (really unattractive) - I was a fool, I should have done the reverse; I was the almighty publisher so I could do whatever I liked. I'm much too nice a person. I also was COMPELLED to add 143 interesting photographs to Martin's 76 mostly boring ones (boring to the ordinary buyer and reader not to the shown airmen's relatives and comrades), plus 27 color photographs etc. I added too in order to make an attractive book out of this terrible mess, but it was not easy. Attractive hard-cover with a golden French pilot's badge, attractive dust-jacket with an ORIGINAL picture painted specially for me by world-famous aviation artist Paul Lengellé ("Aviation Week"-calendars for many years...). I also changed Martin's title "L'aviation française en 1939-40" into the flamboyant "Invisibles vainqueurs", which even my enemies can see was created by me. I hadn't realised the truth about Martin's text yet, though. Otherwise I would have called it "French aircrew corpses" and refused to publlish "that".

Even so the "Ecole des Pupilles de l'Air", a big secondary school for the sons, nephews etc. of aircrew and the like, gave up the idea of purchasing dozens of copies of "Invisibles vainqueurs" as traditional prizes at the end of the school-year (rewards for the best pupils) because Martin's long list of French aircrew killed, crushed, charred etc. was all too sinister.

In any case I am the man who published the very first comprehensive book on the whole of the 1939-40 French Air Force - not on fighters only. This was something already. This book was very far from perfect, even materially (my pages in the book are really ugly - much to my chgrin!). Of course all the people who always know everything better - about a dozen in France - found Martin's work wonderful (charred corpses etc.), what I scandalously had added was called "the publisher's wild nonsense" (you can read the same nonsense fairly often here). Some people claim on the Internet that I added some pages not wanted by author Paul Martin. As the publisher of this book my reply is : either with my pages or nothing at all for I WILL NOT publish the list of French dead bodies only. So everybody should be glad and grateful that this horrible thing was published at all - with my big improvements. Even to this day they never stopped attacking, insulting and libelling me in all their cheap magazines for 12-years old youngsters and on the Internet, even 17 years later! Some stubborn people! I guess they must have some good reasons for trying to destroy my reputation. Just wait a little...

9 years later Master CJE (the world-famous author) published Paul Martin's 2nd edition; Martin had found more French losses in the meantime, for ex. + 56 % losses for D.520s so you could wonder how serious and how reliable the whole thing actually is. Of course CJE replaced my "wild nonsense" with his own views and remarks - definitely not really an improvement. Every reader of TOCH is able to make his own opinon for CJE has written a lot here.

Quote:
Just enter my name in Google and you'll have no less than six books and about one hundred articles I published in Aéro-Journal, Historia, Historama, Connaissance de l'Histoire and half a dozen more French and foreign magazines !

- Yes, this is exactly the list of most low-grade, "popular" (in the worst meaning of this word), sensational French publications for youngsters and housewives who are unable to make the difference between "that" and real history, between Guynemer and Accart, between a Spad and a D.520. ("Great historian" Pierre Miquel actually wrote, in his WW II-book, that the Spads were obsolete or so - in 1940).

You forgot to mention one of your books : a French book, published by you around 2002, on the Luftwaffe. I never had a chance even to see it for it disappeared immediately before I could purchase a copy. According to the review published by the magazine "avions" it was simply a copy of a German book full of serious errors, published 1948 in Germany ; at the time these errors were understandable but not 2002 or so. The conclusion in "avions" was : "Only for those who know nothing on the Luftwaffe."

What counts is not the number of books but their quality.

Just wait a little - be patient! My life has not ended yet (too bad - I know you're impatient).

Around 2000 a disgusting Polish author published a filthy, stinking little booklet, "The Lost Hopes" - Polish fighter pilots in France 1939-40. Among other gems this dustbin-bait contains the following (approximate quotations) :

"French (fighter) officers flew the reverse of the course towards the combat area - French officers took Polish pilots' victories for themselves " (and more - I need not quote the entire heap of manure).

You, Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt, immediately, joyfully and proudly announced at TOCH that you would reproduce this passage in your kiddie-magazine "Aéro Journal". I need not even comment on this.

Last edited by Grozibou; 27th August 2008 at 17:43.
  #2  
Old 27th August 2008, 16:12
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Good afternoon Grozibou

I see you are proving that it's hard to keep a good man down!!

Rather than continue insulting all and sundry - which is not winning you many fans on this side of the Channel - may I ask for your comments regarding a tragic 'friendly fire' incident that occurred on 14 May 1940, please?

According to my information, MS406s from GCIII/7 shot down four RAF Battles from 142 Squadron - in mistake for HS126s!

I am not suggesting anything but a tragic error - but Hs126s!

PS: Among my many researcher friends and acquaintances I am happy to include many French guys, all of whom have been extremely generous with their help.

Have a nice day

Cheers
Brian
  #3  
Old 27th August 2008, 16:46
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grozibou View Post
Around 2000 a disgusting Polish author published a filthy, stinking little booklet, "The Lost Hopes" - Polish fighter pilots in France 1939-40. Among other gems this dustbin-bait contains the following (approximate quotations) :
"French (fighter) officers flew the reverse of the course towards the combat area - French officers took Polish pilots' victories for themselves " (and more - I need not quote the entire heap of manure).

I cannot say if he is disgusting, I certainly have not had such a feeling.
In regard of his book, those are quotes from accounts of the airmen who were there back in 1940. You should note this as well.
Why have not you discussed those matters some 20-30 years ago, when those airmen were still alive?
  #4  
Old 27th August 2008, 17:39
Grozibou
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
[/center]
A. In regard of his book, those are quotes from accounts of the airmen who were there back in 1940. You should note this as well.
B. Why have not you discussed those matters some 20-30 years ago, when those airmen were still alive?
A. Having been in France 1940 does not prove that you're not telling bullshit. A number of French people were in France 1940 and they don't confirm these anti-French hateful Polish myths so they must be right for they were there.

B. 20 years ago was 1988. I was fully busy with selling "Les premiers et les derniers" and working on "Invisibles vainqueurs", together with Paul Martin (who was adding some new passsages and dozens of new aircraft serials all the time until the spring of 1991 - not an easy task for me) and general Accart. That was enough of a burden. What's more, I had no reason to suspect all the garbage and BS published LATER, at least 10 years later. I had no idea. I thought Poland and France were good friends precisely after WW II. If I had been aware of "it" I would have demolished it thoroughly, which I am going to do in my next book, and you'll look rather foolish to say the least. But everybody here (except the newbies) knows you and your blind fanatism, which reminds me of genuine Nazi's anti-Jewish fanatism (not to mention purely Polish anti-Jewish racism).

30 years ago was 1978 and I had just been recruited by the entirely new European Patent Office (end of 1977), in Munich, as an experienced translator. This huge international organisation (15 countries at the time, now probably around 30) was being created and growing. You can believe me, I WAS BUSY (and I didn't bother a lot about WW II even though I was interested). So I had some other concerns. I would never have imagined that anti-French Polish hate anyway. To me this discovery was a complete surprise. After all my own father, an important member of the Armée de l'Air (major) and of the Résistance, was murdered (NOT killed in a fight or in a gun-battle) by enemy soldiers who used to kill whomever they were able to catch.

Why don't you stop the nonsense at last?
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Old 27th August 2008, 17:50
Grozibou
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Rather than continue insulting all and sundry (...)
- Don't you think you ought to knock off this wholesale libelling of my person? Whom did I insult? BE SPECIFIC PLEASE. Thanks in advance. I feel I did not insult anybody.

As for that friendly-fire incident I discovered it only very recently - here at TOCH I think - and I was horrified but such things will happen at war. Some French AC were shot down and aircrew killed by British fighters AND AAA! I'll have a look for you only because I am a nice guy but don't overstretch it with "insulting all and sundry" etc. Prove it first. If you PROVE it I'll admit it and I'll apologise - I am not Polish but French, or no, rather European even if Maggie hates Europe (the natives, those gooks). I mean solid, undisputable evidence. Saying that Mr. X published a terrible book is not an insult but expressing a fact. There is a difference. Do you understand the difference between facts and insults Mr. Cull?
  #6  
Old 27th August 2008, 18:06
Kutscha Kutscha is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

How long do we have to put up with this aggressive, abusive and obnoxious poster?
  #7  
Old 27th August 2008, 18:47
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Mr Grozibau

Insulting? In my book you have just insulted Franek! And CJE!

You don't seem to understand - Disagreement is acceptable. Constructed criticism is acceptable. Your own opinions are acceptable - but you always seem to add an insult. You should apologise IMHO

Cheers
Brian
  #8  
Old 27th August 2008, 18:48
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

I agree, Kutscha. However, the responses he gets gives him the oxygen he needs to sustain his ramblings.
  #9  
Old 27th August 2008, 18:51
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grozibou View Post
A. Having been in France 1940 does not prove that you're not telling bullshit. A number of French people were in France 1940 and they don't confirm these anti-French hateful Polish myths so they must be right for they were there.
Do you expect that people accused of cowardice will gently admit to it, do not you? The fact is that such accounts are numerous and related to various units. Not all of them, but not single cases.
Quote:
B. 20 years ago was 1988. I was fully busy with selling "Les premiers et les derniers" and working on "Invisibles vainqueurs", together with Paul Martin (who was adding some new passsages and dozens of new aircraft serials all the time until the spring of 1991 - not an easy task for me) and general Accart. That was enough of a burden. What's more, I had no reason to suspect all the garbage and BS published LATER, at least 10 years later. I had no idea.
I cannot imagine Frenchmen were unawared of what is being published in Polish. There were numerous books published in Poland since the war and describing the French Campaign first hand.
Quote:
I thought Poland and France were good friends precisely after WW II.
Oh, yes, de Gaulle was the first western leader to recognise criminal puppet communistic government of so called Poland. A lot of friendship to be expected.
Quote:
If I had been aware of "it" I would have demolished it thoroughly, which I am going to do in my next book, and you'll look rather foolish to say the least.
We shall see.
Quote:
But everybody here (except the newbies) knows you and your blind fanatism, which reminds me of genuine Nazi's anti-Jewish fanatism (not to mention purely Polish anti-Jewish racism).
Polish-Jewish relations were not based on racist grounds, so common in the Western Europe. Mind you those were French from independent France (Vichy), who send train after train full of Jews to be disposed off. Really, your view of the past is seriously distorted.
Quote:
30 years ago was 1978 and I had just been recruited by the entirely new European Patent Office (end of 1977), in Munich, as an experienced translator. This huge international organisation (15 countries at the time, now probably around 30) was being created and growing. You can believe me, I WAS BUSY (and I didn't bother a lot about WW II even though I was interested). So I had some other concerns. I would never have imagined that anti-French Polish hate anyway. To me this discovery was a complete surprise. After all my own father, an important member of the Armée de l'Air (major) and of the Résistance, was murdered (NOT killed in a fight or in a gun-battle) by enemy soldiers who used to kill whomever they were able to catch.
That is entirely your problem. At the time there was your chance to discuss all the issues, when the people involved were still alive and kicking.
Quote:
Why don't you stop the nonsense at last?
The thing you call nonsense are quotes from the airmen who fought over France in 1940 and for France 1940-1945. I cannot stop them, this has been already written.
  #10  
Old 27th August 2008, 19:42
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: "Don't you know who I am?"

Grozibou / Yves Michelet has been suspended for three months.

Very last warning, next time it is for the duration.

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