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Old 23rd June 2020, 09:47
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Numerals on rudders

I have a number of photos which show bombers with numerals on their tail. For example, Do 217 M-1, Wk Nr 56125, U5+UK has the number 2 on the tail-they are not training aircraft but front line aircraft so is 2 for 2 Staffel or 2 for KG 2? Or am I missing something really obvious.......
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Old 23rd June 2020, 11:42
RudiS RudiS is offline
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Most of the photos of a/c with large white numerals on the tail (and sometimes on the upper wing also) are mostly a/c from the IVth Gruppe(Erganzungsgruppe) but these numbers can indeed also be seen on a/c from the other 3 Gruppe.

In my opinion this can mean 2 things:
- a Gruppe that temporarily was redrawn from frontline service applied these numerals during training. Most specifically during formation flights.
- Experienced pilots that were temporarily reallocated to the IVth Gruppe to pass on their knowledge, brought their “own” a/c with them.

I have seen numerals in the #50 & #60 range so they have nothing to do with the Staffel. I was always (untill now) under the impression that these were the 2 last digits of the WNr.



Hope this helps.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:03
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Re: Numerals on rudders

56125/U5+UK was damaged in an accident 7 Sep 43 after which it became 56125/U5+CT and lost 20 Apr 44 so highly unlikely it went to IV./KG 2 in between.
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Old 24th June 2020, 15:05
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Some Ju88s from KSG.1 and 3 had white rudder numbers eg. 9 and 6 when they became KG.101 in Feb. 1943 and were coded "V3"; these must have been used in training. 2. and 3. Staffeln had them.
Also KG200 had several Mistels in 1945 with numbers maybe ex. 101 ?
Nick
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Old 24th June 2020, 16:10
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Like this? I have now two examples of 2./KG 2 with '2' on the tail
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Old 24th June 2020, 16:58
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Re: Numerals on rudders

On the mistels/ln, these number corresponded to some production number, in the docs refered as RWxxx, or at least.. used to paire the Ju nd the Fw planes



Rémi
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Old 25th June 2020, 14:16
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Chris. Was one of your 2 photos a Do.217M in night camouflage with white "2", plus 2 narrow bands on the tail cone? Caption says Jan.1944 , from 2./KG2 operating against England.
These are Do.217Es from KG2 , note no."7" on rear one; if this is III.Gruppe maybe 7.Staffel but that's a guess.The yellow stripe would be III.Gruppe but the emblem is Geschwader (Holzhammer) not Gruppe.
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Old 25th June 2020, 15:02
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Re: Numerals on rudders

The aircraft with number 7 I can see 8 before the cross. It should belong to II/KG 40 .

Eduardo.
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Old 25th June 2020, 15:16
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Never seen those markings on II./KG 40 and here is the photo in question
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Old 25th June 2020, 17:18
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: Numerals on rudders

Hi Chris

The old Warpaint Series No. 24 on the Do 217, by Jerry Scutts, includes side profiles of Do 217 M-1s U5+LK and U5+DK of 2./KG 2. Both are shown with the same camouflage as the image you have and have the '2' on the tail fin. Both are captioned for Operation Steinbock in October 1944. U5+DK also has the two tail-rings.

Perhaps operation-specific markings for 2./KG 2 during Steinbock?

Not definitive I know!
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Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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