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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Numerals on rudders
I have a number of photos which show bombers with numerals on their tail. For example, Do 217 M-1, Wk Nr 56125, U5+UK has the number 2 on the tail-they are not training aircraft but front line aircraft so is 2 for 2 Staffel or 2 for KG 2? Or am I missing something really obvious.......
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#2
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Most of the photos of a/c with large white numerals on the tail (and sometimes on the upper wing also) are mostly a/c from the IVth Gruppe(Erganzungsgruppe) but these numbers can indeed also be seen on a/c from the other 3 Gruppe.
In my opinion this can mean 2 things: - a Gruppe that temporarily was redrawn from frontline service applied these numerals during training. Most specifically during formation flights. - Experienced pilots that were temporarily reallocated to the IVth Gruppe to pass on their knowledge, brought their “own” a/c with them. I have seen numerals in the #50 & #60 range so they have nothing to do with the Staffel. I was always (untill now) under the impression that these were the 2 last digits of the WNr. Hope this helps.
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Regards, Rudi |
#3
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Re: Numerals on rudders
56125/U5+UK was damaged in an accident 7 Sep 43 after which it became 56125/U5+CT and lost 20 Apr 44 so highly unlikely it went to IV./KG 2 in between.
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#4
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Some Ju88s from KSG.1 and 3 had white rudder numbers eg. 9 and 6 when they became KG.101 in Feb. 1943 and were coded "V3"; these must have been used in training. 2. and 3. Staffeln had them.
Also KG200 had several Mistels in 1945 with numbers maybe ex. 101 ? Nick |
#5
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Like this? I have now two examples of 2./KG 2 with '2' on the tail
Last edited by Chris Goss; 13th July 2020 at 14:41. |
#6
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Re: Numerals on rudders
On the mistels/ln, these number corresponded to some production number, in the docs refered as RWxxx, or at least.. used to paire the Ju nd the Fw planes
Rémi |
#7
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Chris. Was one of your 2 photos a Do.217M in night camouflage with white "2", plus 2 narrow bands on the tail cone? Caption says Jan.1944 , from 2./KG2 operating against England.
These are Do.217Es from KG2 , note no."7" on rear one; if this is III.Gruppe maybe 7.Staffel but that's a guess.The yellow stripe would be III.Gruppe but the emblem is Geschwader (Holzhammer) not Gruppe. Nick Last edited by Buckeye30; 14th January 2021 at 15:21. |
#8
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Re: Numerals on rudders
The aircraft with number 7 I can see 8 before the cross. It should belong to II/KG 40 .
Eduardo. |
#9
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Never seen those markings on II./KG 40 and here is the photo in question
Last edited by Chris Goss; 13th July 2020 at 14:41. |
#10
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Re: Numerals on rudders
Hi Chris
The old Warpaint Series No. 24 on the Do 217, by Jerry Scutts, includes side profiles of Do 217 M-1s U5+LK and U5+DK of 2./KG 2. Both are shown with the same camouflage as the image you have and have the '2' on the tail fin. Both are captioned for Operation Steinbock in October 1944. U5+DK also has the two tail-rings. Perhaps operation-specific markings for 2./KG 2 during Steinbock? Not definitive I know!
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Best wishes Tim O. Looking for any information or documents relating to: Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122 |
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