Loss of Luftwaffe training aircraft by Mosquitos

[Kurtl12]

On September 30th, 1944 3 Luftwaffe training aircraft were downed by at least 2 Mosquito aircraft over Raffelding (former Luftwaffe airflield west of Linz). They probably had their training there.
I have:
Bü 181 WNr.: 130249 FjUffz HENLEIN, Herbert and Uffz. HANSSES, Richard of JG 105
Bü 131 WNr.: 674 FjUffz. von WEDEL, Udo of JG 105
Ar 96 WNr.: 4397 +8 FjUffz. DIEHL, Kurt of JG 105
All three were downed by "two Mosquitos". All 4 men were KIA. I would like to find out more about this case. These training aircraft probably did fly during the day. Isn't it strange Mosquitos during daylight over Austrian's skies in low level? Any information about this is much appreciated. Thanks alot! Kurtl

[udf_00]

Not that strange, looks like a "Day Ranger".
http://www.manitobamilitaryaviationm...18squadron.pdf
bottom of page 29 :
"On 30 September the unit made its first operational take-off from an airfield in continental Europe. Gray-Gibbons and Brook-McLaren left at noon from St. Dizier to visit Erding (near Munich) and Eferding (Austria) airfields. At Erding their cannon fire chewed to pieces two parked fighters and damaged five more. At Eferding Gray blasted one fighter out of the air and his fire was eating up the tail and rear fuselage of another when his cannon ammunition ran out. He had to content himself with emptying his machine-guns on a bomber parked at Horshing."

[Kurtl12]

That is quite interesting!
S/L Ross Garstang GRAY, DFC survived the war. A picture of him can be seen on http://www.flyingforyourlife.com/pilots/ww2/g/gray/. On September 30th, 1944 he claimed on FW 190 destroyed in the air and damaged another one.
F/O Noel Gibbons, DFC seems to have been a pretty good navigator. He did not survive the war and was KIA on October 22nd, 1944 still serving with No. 418 Squadron. A picture of him can be seen here: http://www.flyingforyourlife.com/gallery/418/

And here http://www.mossie.org/squadrons/418_squadron.htm I've found a nice overview of No. 418 Squadron as well as an copy of the Day Ranger report of S/L Kipp of April 14th, 1944. Any ideas where I can find the report of S/L Gray and F/L P. R. Brook from Sept. 30th, 1944?

St. Dizier airfield is probably identical with today's base aerienne 113 Saint Dizier-Robinson of the Frence Air Force as found on wikipedia. Interesting stuff!

Many thanks to "udf_00" for the root source that made all this research possible!

[udf_00]

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ineCollections
keywords : 418 squadron Gray
http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...s?uri=D7447867
keywords : 418 squadron Brook
http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...s?uri=D7447869

[Brian Bines]

The Soren C. Flensted 'AIRWAR OVER DENMARK' site has details of the loss of two of the claimed Ju 52's from 5/MSG 1 this day (see S/L Kipp's report 14-4-1944 ), he notes that he could only trace two losses.

[Kurtl12]

Many thanks again for udf_00 for seeking all that data at The National Archives homepage. I know that you have to pay for each document when ordering it per internet to download. But I wonder if they are for free to look at it if you appear the the Archieves at Kew, London in personal. Has anyone experiences with that? Cheers - Kurtl

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Kurtl12

But I wonder if they are for free to look at it if you appear the the Archives at Kew, London in personal. Has anyone experiences with that? Cheers - Kurtl

Squadron Records Books can be viewed free if you visit Kew (the same is true of all records there). They are on microfilm and you can print the parts you want for 25 pence a page.

[Kurtl12]

Nick, thanks for your quick response! Sounds like you've already been to the Archives at Kew. So you probably know if you can just go there and ask for the individula record or is it necessary to order some days in advance? Kurtl

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Kurtl12

Nick, thanks for your quick response! Sounds like you've already been to the Archives at Kew. So you probably know if you can just go there and ask for the individula record or is it necessary to order some days in advance? Kurtl

Yes, I have been to Kew a lot over the years. Everything you need to know is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/visit/

You need to take a passport with you (or other photo identification) to register for a reader's card. You can't order documents in advance until you have a reader's card, as far as I know. There is no problem getting files on the day you visit (except very rarely when someone else is using that file). Files on paper take about 25-40 minutes to arrive, microfilms you just go and take them from the drawer.

[David Pausey]

Hi Kurtl

Were all three aircraft shot down in aircombat ? as 418 Sqn claimed 1 Fw190 destroyed and 1 Fw190 damaged in the air + 1 Me110, 1 Fw190 dest and 6 aircarft damaged all on the ground.

515 Sqn also sent two Mosquitos on a day ranger to the Munich,Linz,Vienna areas but got as far as Salzburg calming 3 E/a DEST and 3 E/A dam. Both crews FTR and were interned in Switzerland, any info on Luftwaffe losses on the ground ?

Regards
David