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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #21  
Old 11th May 2013, 13:41
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

In 2011, I published a long article on the 151 Wing in Russia:

Brytyjczycy nad Murmańskiem - 151 RAF Wing w Rosji/ Brits over Murmansk - 151 Wing in Russia.

Article was published in the Militaria XX wieku No. 4 (43) 2011 pp. 4-15 there are 21 b&w photos and color profiles of two Hurricanes plus a very nice cover.

http://www.sklep.kagero.pl/43-milita...4-43-2011.html

http://kagero.eu/na-ladzie/115-milit...f-wing-wnrosji

Photos of Tim is published in it (p. 10), and how, have to be, just a slightly different angle. Safonov also is on it.

Regards,
mw
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  #22  
Old 11th May 2013, 14:21
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timothy timothy is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

How do I see photos, Mirek?

Or get back number??

= Tim

Oh, silly me - I HAVE that issue. And yes - a better photograph than my first one.
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  #23  
Old 11th May 2013, 14:47
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timothy timothy is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

And, of course, I flew GV-33 (the cover photo) off the Carrier.

http://www.2gvsap.org/video/151_0805.wmv

= Tim
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  #24  
Old 11th May 2013, 23:57
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GMichalski GMichalski is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

hi,
many thanks to add more interesting info...
now I'm looking at the number of russian claims and enemy casualties...

take a look:
http://www.net-film.ru/en/film-7763/
regards
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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle."
Dietrich Hrabak

"The wingman is absolutely indispensable. I look after the wingman. The wingman looks after me....."
Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski,

"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first."
Adolf Galland
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  #25  
Old 14th May 2013, 13:59
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

Quote:
many thanks to add more interesting info...
now I'm looking at the number of russian claims and enemy casualties...
If you do not read Russian you may have a small problem!

Second, overclaiming ratio on Soviet side (among top pilots/aces) on the Far North was average about 3-4 to 1. It means one in fact destroyed LW's plane to 3-4 claimed/credited victories on Russian side.

So it is interesting subject.

All the best
mw
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  #26  
Old 15th May 2013, 11:28
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GMichalski GMichalski is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

hi,
yes, you're right....

in this area some pilots of jg5 overclaimed a lot
sometimes more than 3 or 4 - 1 of Safonov
(Ehrler, Weissenberger, Müller, Dorr, Schuck...)
on the other hand i think that Safonov damaged
many planes that did not fall to the ground
regards
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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle."
Dietrich Hrabak

"The wingman is absolutely indispensable. I look after the wingman. The wingman looks after me....."
Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski,

"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first."
Adolf Galland
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  #27  
Old 15th May 2013, 16:24
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

Always is importann how you just difine a victory.
One man thougts about it as a total destroyed plane (at least >60 % of damage according LW's standards). Others are not so strictly (like me for example).

Next I have said average ratio 3-4 for 1 real loss. In some dules was almost 1 to 1 in others 6 or 7 to 0. All sides had exagerated their amount of victories, which is normal and standard in WW II.

Safonov had some victores, which were in fact "only" damaged planes of course. All German combat planes were 100 % metal one. I-16, MiG-3 or ŁaGG-3, or Hurricanes were not, as Ił-2, this is imprtant too.

mw
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  #28  
Old 16th May 2013, 10:52
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Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses

totally agree
for me if it meets certain conditions is a credible pilot:

enemy had aircraft in the area, there was a combat, some were damaged and sometimes some fell to the ground...

regards
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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle."
Dietrich Hrabak

"The wingman is absolutely indispensable. I look after the wingman. The wingman looks after me....."
Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski,

"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first."
Adolf Galland
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