Late war NMF 65 sqn Mustang operations over Norway?

[runeha]

Hi!

Are there any chance that some of the Mustangs used in late-war raids over Norway were in Natural Metal Finish. I've seen pictures of NMF planes both from 65 and 315 (Polish) sqn. and I know that both squadrons operated over Norway.

Any help appreciated

Best regards
Rune
Norway

[Terry McGrady]

Originally Posted by runeha

Hi!

Are there any chance that some of the Mustangs used in late-war raids over Norway were in Natural Metal Finish. I've seen pictures of NMF planes both from 65 and 315 (Polish) sqn. and I know that both squadrons operated over Norway.

Any help appreciated

Best regards
Rune
Norway

Yes there were > In fact the Squadron flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV/ IVA as did 19 Squadron. 315 only operated MKIII .None of these were uncamouflaged during the period of operations
over Norway from the info I have . Contact me at terry.jackie@btopenworld.com
over the weekend and I'll dig out some photo's of 65 taking off at Peterhead.
Cheers
Terry McGrady

[atckyrre]

As Terry said 315 Sqn did not strip their Mustang III's until after the war. But 65, 19 and possibly 234 Sqn flew their Mustang IV Silver Birds over Norway in the last months of the war.
If you get Halvor Sperbund's "Brennpunkt Westküste" there are a couple of 19 sqn QV-marked Mustang IV's. The book comes highly recommended. And if you don't want to get the book just contact me by PM or offline

Kyrre

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

You are probably already aware of the order of 8th March 1945 that declaired that all RAF Mustangs were to drop their coloured camouflage schemes.[Ref: Camouflage & Markings N A Mustang].

If the Attacks you are looking at is before the 8th March then I would doubt that any RAF Mustang was un-camouflaged.

Indeed, the 65 Sqdn a/c that came down in Sweden were both camouflaged. FZ110 YT-S in May 1944 and KH695 YT-E in April 1945.

'695 still wore the fuselage Sky band .
Also IIRC both these a/c had the fin fillet.
Hope this helps

Alex

[Terry McGrady]

Alex
65 as did 19 flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV over Norway KH695 YT-E certainly had a fin-fillet It was a MKIVA -P51K
So far have managed to identify 42 MKIV/IVA which serves on 65 , the Majority of which were un camouflaged . Mustang at war has a photo line upof 65 Sq
which both camoed and "Silver" Mustang MKIV/IVA purportedly at Peterhead.

[atckyrre]

Originally Posted by Terry McGrady

Alex
65 as did 19 flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV over Norway KH695 YT-E certainly had a fin-fillet It was a MKIVA -P51K
So far have managed to identify 42 MKIV/IVA which serves on 65 , the Majority of which were un camouflaged . Mustang at war has a photo line upof 65 Sq
which both camoed and "Silver" Mustang MKIV/IVA purportedly at Peterhead.

Veeeery interesting information Terry. Is this something you're planning to have available for the general public at some point?
I trust you've seen the Modelling Aircraft Monthly covering quite extensively the III's and IV's of the RAF? If not let me know...
Also have you got Nyerøds book covering his time with 65 Sqn? Admittedly he flew the III's only, but there are quite a few interesting photos

Kyrre

[Kjetil Aakra]

In Sperbund's book (Brennpunkt "Westküste") it is mentioned that both 19. and 65. Sqd. had converted to Mustang Mk IVs which were called Silver Mustangs or Silver Birds for obvious reasons. This was in late March 1945. There is one ophoto there of YT-Q KM148 (flown by Johnny W. Foster). I also have a couple of photos of QV-F KH818 (unknown date) which is also "silver".

So silver Mustangs were obviously used over Norway in the last few months of the war.

Regards,

Kjetil

[Franek Grabowski]

Problem of colours and markings of RAF Mustangs is a subject of several misconceptions and errors. I would suggest to avoid old Ducimus booklet as it is more misleading rather than helpful.
Concerning silver Mustangs, all teardrop aircraft (Mk IVAs) but a short batch of Mk IVs were delivered in NM/silver. Few of them received camouflage but this was exceptional. I have no definite proof but I believe Mk IVs ultimately lost their camouflages unless previously destroyed.
Most if not all Mk IIIs were delivered in camouflage and most of them retained it until struck of charge. A few aircraft lost camouflage and saw service during the last month of war. I do not have a complete list of serials yet but of those identified, neither flew over Norway without a paint.

[SteveB]

I agree with Franek that although the Ducimus book is the best we have had for many years it is important not to rely totally on its contents these days.

65Sqdn flew its first op with MkIIIs and IVs on 8 March 1945 and its first op with all MkIVs on 17 March. 19Sqdn flew its first op with MkIIIs and IVs on 3 April and did not fly its first full op with all MkIVs until 26 April. The photos taken at Peterhead which appear in Roger Freeman’s “Mustang at War” were taken on 20 April 1945 and they clearly show NMF MkIVs in both sqdns but not many serials are identifiable.

Although the official records are not always accurate they show that KM148 was not issued to 65Sqdn until 10 May 1945 after the sqdn had returned South to Bentwaters. The 65Sqdn CO normally flew ‘Q’ but I think Johnnie Foster’s YT*Q at Peterhead was KH788 (probably also NMF but no photographic evidence).

Kyrre


I have tried Googling on "Brennpunkt Westküste"
and on Kristian Nyerrod and not had much luck (in English!!) I guess I can't get the correct Norwegian spelling . Can you provide any more info on these books please including details of booksellers. I am very interested to hear that there is a book by Nyerrod he flew Mustang IIIs with 122Sqdn Jan to May 1944 and was transferred to 65Sqdn in May as a flight commander until beginning of August 1944.

Good stuff!!!!

Steve

[atckyrre]

Steve.

Not 100% sure if the books are still available but if they are you should be able to find them both on
http://www.automobilia.no/english/
I know that Nyerrøds book "En av de mange" (One out of many) should be found there at least.

This is a very very very good bookshop in Oslo. Admittedly rather pricey but the owner is in the know about just about any war- or tech book published.

Apart from that I did find the Brennpunktbookfor sale in the webshop of our Norwegian dive mag
http://shop.dykking.no/catalog/produ...products_id=28

You can also get it from the Amazon afiliate bokkilden
http://www.bokkilden.no/ProductDetai...alogName=Books

While we're at it I can't praise enough the book Flyalarm. Loads of pics and just republished. It covers the complete aerial war history over Norway and is VERY thorough. It's our bible. Once again in Norwegian though.
http://www.bokkilden.no/ProductDetai...alogName=Books

Here's the Norwegian book about the Black Friday. Very very good book with lots of nice pictures
http://www.bokkilden.no/SearchResult...n&filtertype=0

Let me know if you don't have success in finding Nyerrøds book. Vee hav our vays you know.

Kyrre