Help ID RAF Grid Reference S.1676

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Chris: Of course I know where St. Brieuc is (I visited it in 2019, on the same trip to France when we met)....and surely it is very far away from Dunkirk....am dumb, but not so dumb to make such a mistake, I assure you (and am familiar with VFR - and IFR - Navigation and charts as well). What I mentioned is that the Grid System do give us some places not close to where the combat was reported by the RAF crew...and the Combat Report of the same RAF crew does not give us the correct Grid Code (as far as we know). So we are stuck.

Steve: I do agree with you, there must be something missing on the Combat Report. I did not know the reference book you mentioned and the position you mention fits perfectly around Dunkirk - Gravelines area.

NICK:I did not know about the KG 2 machine being shot down close or nearby. But this is the Ju 88 am looking for: 7A+BH. I obtained recently a photograph of Robert Ziegler, hence my interest in his earlier career and dismise. What seems strange and you informed, is that their bodies were later recovered off the Dutch Coast, which may suggest that the combat took place a bit North of Dunkirk. My gratitude for the link to the Powerpoint claims of Mosquitos...most useful...and it gave me the code of the Mosquito flown by S/L Green, DFC as VY*A. Again, my gratitude for that help.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Just for the records, some of the losses of 25/26 July (not on the same night of 26/27 July 1943 of the loss of 7A+BH):

U5+GK, a Dornier Do 217 M-1, werknummer 56045, from 2./KG 2 seems to have been shot down by F/O B.R. Keele from 604 Squadron off Spurn Head (one of his two claims that night). Pilot Uffz Robert Fuchs and crew killed.

U5+KL, werknummer 56046 also a Do 217 M-1 from 3./KG 2 seems to have been shot down by F/O Knowles of 605 Squadron, on the night of 25/26 July whilst landing at Soesterberg. Pilot Lt Manfred Liedert killed.

[RSwank]

According to this link, there was a wS square on the British Cassini Grid. (See first page).

https://www2.uwe.ac.uk/faculties/CAH...y/RH5Penny.pdf

(Also note there are squares wW and wX on the bottom row. For some reason the echodelta.net site omits all three squares.)

(In fact, the echodelta.net site shows the British Cassini Grid as basically a 11x7 grid, while the full British Cassini Grid was 13x8. The echo site
omits the two top rows, the first column and the 3 squares mentioned above.)

(As an added bonus, pages 4 and 5 on the above link discuss the times zones used by Britain and Germany throughout the war).

Back to the maps, there is a converter for the various British Grid Systems here:

https://www.fieldenmaps.info/cconv/cconv_gb.html

If you enter in the Orange Box (WOFO, British Cassini) convertor section:

wS 16 76

That will be converted into all the other Grid Systems on the page. Looking, for example, at the Green box at the top of the page, it converts to

51.26056617 N, 1.89649382 E in the WGS84/ETRS89 system.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

RSwank,

My most sincere and DEEPEST GRATITUDE for those findings.

I really believed, as Nick also may have believed, that there was a Grid wS somewhere....or that the 85 Squadron crew have omitted the w on their Combat Report.

I had tried but got no joy in finding it, or a document proving this theory.... You found it!

I also have found the second link site...but I was unable to convert either qC1676 Grid, which I thought should be the right place...but your convertion for the wS.1676 Grid reference do matches perfectly what all books and the 85 Squadron ORB do says: the combat took place somewhere around 25 miles to the East of Ramsgate.

THANK YOU immensely for providing the correct answers and correct coordinates of the combat. This is really fantastic and am really grateful.

All the best for you and yours.

Adriano

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by RSwank

According to this link, there was a wS square on the British Cassini Grid. (See first page).

https://www2.uwe.ac.uk/faculties/CAH...y/RH5Penny.pdf

Thanks, that is really useful.

[Chris Goss]

Adriano-your post 7 said Ste Brieuc was a “very very good possibility” which is why I posted what I did

[Adriano Baumgartner]

OK Chris, my mistake (and messing up) then....but I was there at St. Brieuc (and Mont St.Michel) in 2019...and Brittany is the loveliest place I went so far....second place is London and South England. Wish I could travel 2-3 hours and be in France again, like you did....are you living in France now? It is a much lovely Country...Take care and enjoy the Cidre.

[Chris Goss]

I am currently in Aquitaine but return to UK next week

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

I am currently in Aquitaine

So on one of the French Lambert Zone grids, then?

[Chris Goss]

Oui je pense!