Another dumb question from Nick:

[NickM]

Hi guys,

As usual, I've had an idle thought pop into my head: What (eventually very successful) German pilots had the most number of sorties before they FINALLY get credited with an air to air victory. I know some long serving pilots started out being paired with a flight or section leader who was a real tiger and didn't allow the wingie a chance for his own shot, while others simply never got the hang of shooting accurately for a long time. I don't recall names or units but I remember a few pilots who had between 100 and 300 combat sorties before finally scoring their first victory.

Can anybody here help me with a some names?

Thanks, ahead of time

NM

[Johannes]

Hi Nick

Just off my head Gerhard Barkhorn I would say. Flew a lot in the West before success in East. Don't know how much Adolf Galland did in Spain before success in France.
But I can look into it. Lots of pilots flew sorties in various roles before becoming fighter-pilots, but I guess your not looking at these.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[NickM]

Thanks for responding; Yes, I was thinking more like a pilot like Gerhard Wiegand, who flew 39 or so combat sorties before he scored his first victory;


I'm sure there were other pilots who went even longer before becoming successful.

[Johannes]

Hi Nick

Probably not later pilots then where earlier success was followed by early death.
Flugbücher would be required, and then working out what is a combat sortie will not be easy.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[alessandro bray]

Hi Nick,

Alfred Hammer JG53 flew 271 sorties before first confirmed victory, most Malta escort missions
Regards


Alessandro

[NickM]

Originally Posted by alessandro bray

Hi Nick,

Alfred Hammer JG53 flew 271 sorties before first confirmed victory, most Malta escort missions
Regards


Alessandro

thanks, that's the guy I was thinking of.

[Johannes]

Hi Nick

Hammer, sorties or combat sorties?

I found Barkhorn 120 combat sorties

Wolfrum 62

Galland over 50

Kind Regards

Johannes

[NickM]

thanks

[Kapper]

Hi Nick

As Johannes has stated, to get the number of combat sorties (Feindfluge) before the 1st victory you will need access to the pilots log books (Flugbuch) which is not easy to get. However, though not exact, you can get an indication by the award system for the award of the Frontflugspange. The Frontflugspange in Gold (FFSiG) was awarded for 110 Frontfluge, which due to the range limitation of single engine fighters equates to 110 Feindfluge. This award was approved by the unit commander (or staff officer) thus the turn around from recommendation to award was relatively quick, thus the award date is close to the achievement – unlike other decorations that needed higher command approval.

Since you are looking for ‘late starters’, I looked through the experten (Knights Cross winners) bio’s for those I have the date of award of the FFSiG and noted the number of victories– disclaimer, my data pool was small as I’ve got less than 20% of experten where I know the date of award of the FFSiG to compare with.

Anyway, I found only 1 Knights Cross pilot who had no victories at the time of award of the FFSiG. Frank Leisendahl was Staffelkapitan of 6./JG 2 when he was awarded the FFSiG on 03.08.41 with no known victories (though rumoured to have 5 victories in total but no details have been found to date). He then moved to Staffelkapitan of 10(Jabo)./JG 2, which seemed to be the fate of many unsuccessful fighter pilots, winning the Knights Cross posthumously after being KIA 17.07.42. He was credited with 142 Feindfluge(ff)- 113ff in fighters. 28 Jabo, and 1 Recce.

I expanded my search to those whose highest decoration was the Deutsch Kreuz in Gold (DKG) and found a true late starter - Heinz Arnold who was in 2.Erg./JG 51 when the Staffel became 12./JG 11 in January 1942 before being renamed again 9./JG 5 in March 1942 and he remained with that unit until Nov 1944 - when he transferred to JG 7. At the time of the awarded of the FFSiG on 14.12.43 he had no known victories, his first victory was 4 months later on 23.04.44 then gaining a total of 49 victories before being KIA in JG7 on 14.04.45.

I have no FFSiG detail on Alfred Hammer to compare to, for the claim of 271 ff and 1st victory.

With respect to Barkhorn, he was awarded the FFSiG on 27.08.41 when he already had 7 victories. He had previously been awarded the Frontflugspange in Silver (FFSiS – 60 Frontfluge) on 20.04.41 when the award was first established so could have had greater than 60 at that time but less than 110. Also note that the criteria for a Frontfluge (thus feindfluge) was set at the time of the establishment of the award and all operational flights were reviewed since the start of the war and those that did not meet the criteria were not counted towards the award. It is possible that many of the coastal patrols Barkhorn did were not counted, thus the award of the FFSiS. Anyway, his first victory was on 01.07.41 so it is likely that this occurred around 80 feindfluge not 120. Barkhorn was definitely a slow starter and it wasn’t until after his 11th victory on 16.05.42 that he finally figured out how to do it and started to regularly down aircraft. Some pilots careers take off when promoted from wingman to element leader but many still took time, Barkhorn was one of these - he was promoted to Staffel-Kapitan on 01.03.42 a few months prior to his 11th victory and would have spent time as flight and section leader before promotion with little success. My guess is that he took over 300 Feindfluge before his successful period started. For comparison Rall and Hartmann took somewhere around 150 Feindfluge before becoming masters of their craft.

No FFSiG information on Wolfram, so cannot comment.

For Adolf Galland he flew 280 feindfluge in the Spanish Civil War, probably more than any else. His Staffel was the last to convert from the He51 to the Bf109, and he tried to stay as long as possible so he could fly missions with the new aircraft. In the He51, which was outdated for aerial combat, he flew ground attack sorties and on return to Germany his experience was needed with the ground attack operations, therefore he flew ground attack missions in Poland. As the story goes he convinced a doctor to sign off that he had issues with open cockpits so he could get a transfer to a Bf109 unit which happened in early 1940 - before the Battle of France. So most of his Feindfluge before his first victory was in the Ground attack role, not fighter role – thus I wouldn’t consider him as a slow starter.

As for unsuccessful leaders and long suffering wingmen who didn’t advance much further - I’ve noted the following:

Uffz Herbert Scholz of JG26 awarded FFSiG 02.08.44 (0) then gained his first (and only) victory a few days later on 06.08.44 before being WIA 07.08.44 and no further details after that date.

Uffz Heinrich Sedlmeir of JG53 awarded FFSiG 17.05.42 (0) before gaining his first victory 03.06.42. He was wounded/injured on 17.04.42, 10.06.42 and 23.07.42 before eventually being KIA 21.04.43 at 3 victories.

Hptm Paul Steindl of JG 26 & 54 awarded FFSiG 15.05.42 (0) didn’t gain his 1st victory until 11.10.42 and went on to gain a total of 9 (or 10) victories before being KIFA 09.01.45

Fw Jens Bahnsen of JG 53 warded FFSiG 18.05.42 (0) – 1st claim 01.07.42 - total 18 before KIA 19.08.43

Uffz Heinrich Scharf of JG 5 awarded FFSiG 17.10.43 (0) – no known victories - KIA 20.06.44

Maj Joachim Seegert of JG 2 & 5 awarded FFSiG 27.03.42 (0) – no known victories – appointed Jafu Norway 20.03.42

All had no victories when at 110 feindfluge - I’m sure there’s more out there (this was from what I consider a small data pool)

Regards,

Craig...

[leonventer]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for that posting -- a useful approach and interesting analysis.

Leon Venter