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Old 10th January 2018, 02:43
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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461 Bomber Group a/c

Hello,

I am a little puzzled about the serial number of a 461 BG a/c.
MACR 7212 - a 767BS "loss"

The a/c in Squadron number is given as "61", That "61" would suggest that it was a 767 Bomber Squadron a/c.

However the only "61" that I can find is 44-41120 which is reported to have been assigned to the 766 Bomber Squadron in late July,44.Later she was transferred to another BG.

Has anyone any info on her previous service please ?

The date I have is 22 July 44.which is prior to the 766 BS assignment.
Yet the "61" would make it a 767BS a/c.

Thanks
Alex
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Old 10th January 2018, 13:23
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Alex, 461 BG B-24H, 41-28836 '61' was lost on July 25, 1944 over Austria.
Gabor
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Old 10th January 2018, 13:51
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Alex,
What is the source for the squadron code of "61". I cannot find it in the MACR. And I believe the 7/25/44 MACR for 41-28836 has eye witness reports saying the aircraft was "69". But "61" is what appears in the Schiffer book on its Bomb Wing. I couldn't spot a reference to the 7/22 MACR in that book, but I didn't spend a lot of time on it. MAW4 keeps calling!

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:52
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Hello Frank,
MACR 7212 - 22/07/44
Jackson's witness report, underneath his signature.
Alex
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:56
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Hello Gabor,
See my reply to Frank re MACR 7212.
Crew of 1Lt. Kelton G. Bush - O-669856.

Not 25th loss.
Alex
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Old 10th January 2018, 17:23
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Alex,
Jackson's report notes him as "Crew 61". This is not the same as "Aircraft 61". Crews were assigned numbers as they came out from the states. I would note in the MACR 7038 for the loss of 41-28836 that the report of 1stLt Paul V Sullivan Jr says "I did not see ship #69, flown by Lt Fisher, again". Further on in the MACR Maj. Lott says "Aircraft No. 69 of the 461st Bombardment Group failed to return ...", and on the next line: "This plane was piloted by 2nd Lt R. H. Fisher of Crew No. 73."

I assume Crew Nos. were assigned in order. I do not know what happened to the list of members of a given Crew Number when someone moved in or out, whether permanently or temporarily. Perhaps someone on the Forum has information on this detail.

I would note that the USN also used Crew Numbers for the members of a PB4Y crew in the VPB and VB units, 1943-45.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 10th January 2018, 17:23
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

OK, thanks.
Gabor
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Old 10th January 2018, 18:33
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Alex/Frank

Since the aircraft under MACR 7212 was not lost, is it known which serial number it had?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 10th January 2018, 18:41
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Stig,
That is ultimately what Alex is trying to determine. Since the MACR will be part of A History of the Mediterranean Air War volume 7, and I am deep in MAW4 I haven't attempted to capture the contents of NARA II for volumes 6 and 7. Eventually. Hopefully the relevant 461st BG mission report will have details.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 10th January 2018, 18:46
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: 461 Bomber Group a/c

Hello Frank,
I take your point re "Crew 61" but is it not possible that he meant that he was crew of a/c "61" when he signed the witness report ?

Hello Stig,
Welcome to the discussion of the serial number mistery of MACR 7212 .

Alex
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