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  #1  
Old 13th November 2006, 11:23
Jens Jens is offline
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Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

I have a question to the Luftwaffe losses August 1944 in France. How much planes and fighters were lost there? For June and July i have figures around 800-1000 plane losses.
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Old 13th November 2006, 11:47
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

The book 'La Luftwaffe face au debarquement allié' identified 419 fighters and recon Bf 109/Fw 190 losses in August 1944 over France (both north and south), but this list is only a part of the losses as most of aircraft lost when the pilot bailed out unijured, or when the AC was destroyed on the ground, or when it was unserviceable and destroyed/abnadonned by retreating Germans won't be listed.

Also this number didn't include any bomber, transport, nightfighter, etc...

Michael Balss book on NJG losses (vol 1) lists 19 losses over France for August 1944.
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Old 14th November 2006, 15:45
Jens Jens is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

This mean 419 is the figure for 109/190 pilots who suffered from the damage of there plane? Means KIA, WIA, MIA and POW?
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Old 14th November 2006, 17:20
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens View Post
This mean 419 is the figure for 109/190 pilots who suffered from the damage of there plane? Means KIA, WIA, MIA and POW?
They are listed as losses.... no % damage given, and in some cases the pilot was unhurt (bailed out, or the AC was destroyed on the ground).

I think that almost all of these 419 losses will be classed on the destroyed (60% damage and more) categories. Maybe some of these losses were WIA pilots returning with damaged AC, but not much. On the other hand this figure is not complete.

Another way to count will be to go to Michael Holm's Luftwaffe site and use the monthly reports of each unit that was in France at the time.
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Old 14th November 2006, 17:51
takata_1940 takata_1940 is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Hello Laurent,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti View Post
Another way to count will be to go to Michael Holm's Luftwaffe site and use the monthly reports of each unit that was in France at the time.
I already tried that before and it's not very accurate because "during 8.44 some of the data from Luftflotte 3 was lost" and the Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen is not complete.

Regards,
Olivier Bacca
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Old 14th November 2006, 21:34
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Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Hi.

The best way to do this is to use the Summarische Verlustemeldungen for the period.

Find which units operated in France, and you have the answer quite easily.

You only need about two weeks in the BA/MA...

Regards,
Andreas
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Old 14th November 2006, 21:46
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Lorant's book also has a list of wrecked/abandoned Bf 109s and Fw 190s in France, found by Allied Technical Intelligence Teams.

To get a fuller picture of all types of abandoned machines however, you'd need to go the the original ATI reports in the National Archives at Kew. Most but not all of these are on AIR40/45.

My website also lists about 70 abandoned aircraft from II./TG 1, KG 26, 6./KG 77, III./KG 100, 2./NAG 13, 1.(F)/33, JG 200, II./JG 77 and JGr. 200 - all units involved in the campaign in the South of France in August 1944:

Go to http://www.ghostbombers.com/index.html click "Operation Dragoon: August 1944" and when you get to that page, click on "Appendices".
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Old 15th November 2006, 07:21
Shikhov Shikhov is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Hello Gentlemens, hello Jens.
As follows may be interesting, may be not.
Within some time counting LW losses in June 1944 both in France and in Germany checking Groehler figures. Method as Andreas Brekken said.
For France counted 958 Bf109/FW190 and ZG/NJG fighters destroyed.
596 by enemy action and 362 without.
Figures for losses in Germany suffered lack of info about Ein./JG104/106/108, but 263 counted against Galland' 166 mentioned in 17.8.44 Report.
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Old 20th November 2006, 10:17
Jens Jens is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Thanks for the figures, these are twice the number of losses in June and July IIRC.
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Old 21st November 2006, 19:11
Jens Jens is offline
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Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944

Quite interesting these figures from France in August 1944:

958 single engined fighter lost
586 were lost due enemy
362 were lost without enemy

according to Luftwaffe document "Flugzeugbewegungen Jagdverbände Oktober 1944" in august 1944
1.073 were lost due enemy
652 without enemy

This would meant in France were lost due enemy "only" 54% of the month and without enemy 55%.
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