I want a separate Merrick: 'Luftwaffe camouflage and markings 1933-1945 forum'. Pls?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Having received the last volume of Merrick' book on camouflage and markings, I would like to see a separate forum on this two-book set. There are a lot of spurious photo interpretations there I feel, and would like to have a separate forum dealing with discussions of these books.

Is that possible, Ruy?

Regards,
Andreas

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Andreas!

What a great idea! I would like to start this off with a discussion on the photograph shown at the top of page 251.

The photograph show two aircraft, one Bf 109 F-4 (probably tropicalized) marked 'Weisse 4 + ~', and a Bf 109G-2/trop marked 'Weisse <3 +'.

Now, Merrick identifies this in the caption (which is quoted here in full):

'LEFT: Identification of III. Gruppe aircraft took two forms, both of which appeared at the same time, either as a vertical bar or as a horizontal 'sine wave' form. The Bf 109 F-4 trop in the background has the latter form of marking, in this instance its white colouring, plus the 'White 4' marking identify it as a 4. Staffel, III. Gruppe aircraft (possibly of JG 77). Note particularly the form of the '4' marking and compare it with the style of the 'White 3' marking on the Gruppen-Adjutant's Bf 109 G-2 trop, W.Nr. 10681. Both aircraft were camouflaged in standard 78/79 tropical finish, with a full array of North Africa tactical markings in white. (J. Crow).'

Now - something must have gone terribly wrong here - the 'White 4' would in my opinion identify an aircraft as belonging to the first Staffel of it's Gruppe. In this case the III. Gruppe as given by the wave behind the Balkenkreuz. So - at this stage of the war that would be the 7. Staffel of Jagdgeschwader X (presumably JG 77).

Also - I think the caption lacks in that it should probably say that the '<3 +' marked aircraft would indicate that the aircraft did probably not belong to III. Gruppe, but rather was an aircraft from either Geschwaderstab or I. Gruppe Stab as it had no additional marking behind the Balkenkreuz. It could of course also be a Gruppenstab aircraft of II. or III. Gruppe.

The fact that there is a difference in the shade of the '4' and '~' when compared to the white colour fo the Balkenkreuz and the tailband could also mean that the code on this aircraft could be yellow rather than white is also a point I would like to discuss, although it could be different types of paint used causing this.

Opinions?

(An otherwise excellent book, and the reason I am starting this is to ensure that small errors doesn't end up giving it a bad rep.)

Regards,
Andreas

[Kjetil Aakra]

Hi Andreas.

I agree with you regarding this photograph and the unit of White 4. The numeral "3" on the other aircraft must be yellow, not white, as you say (compare with the fuel triangle).

Before we start critisising the photo captions I think we must again emphasise that this is a fantastic piece of work (both volumes) and I can only imagine the amount of work that have gone into it. Surely it will set new standards for interpretation of Luftwaffe colours!

Regarding dubious aircraft identifications in vol. 2 I have a few, just for the record:

Page 433: The right top photo shows the tail of a Me 410B-2 (or B-3), W.Nr. 130378, not a Ju 88! This Me 410 is interesting in that it was the last but one of the 130xxx series built in July 1944 (30 aircraft W.Nr. 130351 - 130379). It has the numeral "395" on top of its tail (seems to be painted by hand) and I'd surely like to know what unit it belonged to. No codes are visible.

Page 443: The centre photograph clearly shows a Bf 109E (E-7/b?), not a Bf 109F.

Thanks to Mr. Merrick and Herrn Kiroff for giving us these books. They are treasures!

Kjetil

[Ruy Horta]

Good idea, suggest we try and use a single format as demonstrated in my Me 262 post:

Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=4287

This way each subject is clearly defined and easy to track.

[GrahamB]

Hi Andreas,

I agree with the view that a decent critique of these two books is in order. I have been a 'student' of Luftwaffe camouflage and markings for over 30 years and feel that in many ways (largely because of some interpretations - not uncovered new data) that they mark a step backward in our understanding. This is primarily because the author has found it necessary to fit data into a particular theory (ie. RLN 61 and 62 become RLM 81 and 82). I could go into considerable detail about this and other assertions made in the books.

If you want another appalling misidentification: Vol 2 page 360, the aircraft claimed to be an Avia F39 (Fokker FIXM) is actually an ex Austrian Airforce Caproni Ca 133!

Cheers

GrahamB