242 RCAF in BOF

[VonWaffen]

Well ,Brian to be honest I Was just trying to get a pic ,
Sorry if someone get hurt knowing it was Canadian personnel , what"s that make how I call my topic ???
by the way my name was write down under my first answerd

[Bill Walker]

No, I think we got hurt because you don't understand history. If you know more about this "hiding the true history", please share it. The rest of us missed it.

[SMF144]

Col Bruggy,

Whoops! Thanks for the correction. Either way, Hugh got a plug for two of his books.

Stephen

[VonWaffen]

Here his What really apen.....

When Great Britain declared war on Germany on 3 september 1939 , there were over 1.000 Canadian aircrew serving on active duty with the Royal air force.
They ran the spectrum of service time: some had remained with the RAF since the great war and were now relatively senior , other had joined in the 1920s
and were in intermediate ranks,while the vast majority had arrived on Britain's shores from 1935 onwards. Their reasons for enlisting were similarly diverse.
Some undoubtedly saw little service future in the minuscule Royal Canadian Air Force of the 1930s and others must have been caught up in the patriotic fervor
of rearmament and the looming fascist threat.However , the majority were most likly driven by a compeling sence of advanture would keep them away from Canada.
Many would not return for a great number of years:far to many would never return.

A small cadre of eighteen regular RCAF officer were also serving in various positions on exchange duties or on courses at the commencement of hostility.
One of them , Squadron leader Fowler Morgan Gobeil, an articulate Royal military college graduate and experienced pilot, would be chosen to lead 242 Squadron ,
The first distinctively Canadian fighter unit within the RAF.
To appreciate the nature of official Canadian representation in the RAF after the declaration of war by Canada on 10 september 1939, one must understand something
of the prevailing national sentiment. In may 1939, King George VI and the Queen Elizabeth visited Canada, making the first time its reigning monarch had toured the
country. Their quiet courage in the face of the impending threat moved the nation , stiffeenning the resolve of its citizens to help resist fascism in Europe.
Canada had an equal resolve, however, never again to respond blindly to arrogant, almost contemptuous assumption of support from Britain, as had occurred during the
First World War. Canada had written her national identity in the blood of 60,000 war dead , and justifiably felt that she had earned the right to relative
autonomy from Britain in foreign-policy decisions. That feeling was perhaps best exemplified by the nation's declaration of war on Germany on 10 september....
a full seven days after that of Britain.
The RCAF 'S 242 Squadron owes its origins to the Canadian Gouvernement's nationalistic desire to be represented by a distinctly Canadian unit at the earliest
possible time after the outbreak of war. Since no RCAF formation were in a possition to deploy immediatly, the most logical solution was to cull suitable
Canadian members from existing RAF units and holding pools and use those men to form a separate squadron. In fact, the British governement was very pleased
to have distinctively nationalistic Dominion squadron serving withing the RAF , viewing them as an excellent gesture to the world , particularly the fascist world
of Commonwealth solidarity.19

That view, formally presented by the British Air Council to the governements of Canada , Australia , and New Zealand on 26 september 1939. Set in motion a chain of events
which would culminate in the formation of a new squadron a little over a month later. The British Foreign Office was particularly enthousiastic about the
Propaganda value of a Canadian RAF squadron, and especially in foward deployment to the continent. Accordingly , 242 Canadian Squadron came into being at Church
Fenton, under the command of Squadron Leader Gobeil, on 30 October 1939.
The British governement had make the mistake, however , of assuming that, even given the substantial contributions in termes of fighting units that would be made by Domonions ,
the RAF would be the commun service instrument for operational procedures , chain of authority , code of conduct , anddisciplinary procedures .

In mid December 1939 ,the Canadian minister of National Defence submitted a memorandum regarding the establishement of the British Commonwealth Air training plan.
The memorandum state , that Canada after consultation with Britain, would be permitted to establish Canadian units and formations overseas. Furthemore, these units and formations
would subsequently be designated as elements of the RCAF ,in accordance with RCAF regulations, procedures ,and chain of autority.

The British governement immediatly reputated this proposition, stating that it was beyond the terms of the pending BCATP agreement. Nonestheless the Canadian gouvernement
held firm, and prime Minister Mackenzie King was adament that Canadian agreement to host the BCATP was tied to the proviso.

Canada wound not proceed further unless her sovereign rights were observed and respected. After further negotiations which reworded the Canadian view slightly but not in
sovereignty implications , the Chamberlain governement relented and signed the BCATP into being , paving the way for full RCAF unit participation as element of the RCAF
later during the war......

Now anyone got those pic lolll
Amicaly Eric

[Brian]

OK, Eric

I think we get your point - however it still doesn't make 242 Squadron an RCAF unit by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, 242 Squadron operated throughout the war, often, I would assume without any Canadian members, RCAF or Canadians in the RAF. It ended its days as a transport unit.

Cheers
Brian

[John Vasco]

Eric,
Notwithstanding your very long post, the fact is 242 Squadron was RAF, not RCAF. As I pointed out in my previous post in this thread, the only squadron with the RCAF title in Fighter Command at that time (Battle of Britain) was No.1 RCAF.

It was not out of the ordinary to group nationalities together. Look at 302 & 303 Squadrons in 1940 (albeit with the odd top scorer of another nationality included!). The trend was increased post-1940.

[VonWaffen]

The point is all Canadian Squadron even with the RAF appellation was in fact establish by RCAF , pay by RCAF , and the Propriety of RCAF as a sovereign country and in any way the propriety a Britain , even at the beginning of the war.. Do the appellation Canadian squadron... Even if some call them RAF , they are no mistake to call them RCAF at all

[SMF144]

The point is a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. What source(s) have you consulted? Please let us know.

To quote from The Crucible of War, 1939-1945, The Official History of the RCAF Vol.III

"Meanwhile, the Air Ministry took advantage of the 'phoney war' to set about organizing eighteen additional squadrons. One of the eighteen was No.242 (Canadian) Squadron, RAF. Formed at Church Fenton in Yorkshire, it was the result of a public-relations exercise benefiting both the Canadian and British governments." p.171

"…and when the legendary Squadron Leader Douglas Bader took over command from Gobeil on 24 June 1940, No. 242's last link with anything formally Canadian was cut." p.172

There's nothing more to it. King wanted the squadron to become an RCAF outfit but Air Ministry would have nothing of it.

Stephen

[Kutscha]

Was the whole compliment of 242 Squadron Canadian or was it just the pilots?

[John Vasco]

Maybe we should rename 609 Squadron '609 Squadron plus 1/3 USAAF' once the three American pilots joined during the Battle of Britain...

Of course there is pride in national identity, but it suddenly did not make a whole shoal of RAF fighter squadrons in 1940 to be 'less RAF', or 'non-RAF'. Honour titles were given to many RAF fighter squadrons in 1940, not just (Canadian). How about 303(Kosciuszku), or 302 (City of Poznan), for starters...

Stop trying to re-write history, VonWaffen. It's pathetic what you are trying to do...

I will reiterate. Read this carefully. There was only ONE official Canadian squadron with Fighter Command in 1940, and that was No.1 RCAF. There were MANY nationalities flying in Fighter Command at that time.

Not difficult to grasp, really.