Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26th June 2018, 19:02
Del Davis Del Davis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 174
Del Davis
Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Does anyone have access to the logbooks of either Heinz Marquardt or Kurt Tanzer?
__________________
Del Davis
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27th June 2018, 00:02
David P. Williams David P. Williams is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England
Posts: 356
David P. Williams is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Hi Del,

Heinz Marquardt's log book was destroyed when he was shot down by F/Lt Peter Cowell over Lake Schwerin on 1st May 1945. It was in his rucksack stowed behind him in the cockpit.

David
__________________
David P. Williams
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th June 2018, 11:54
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 875
Johannes is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Hi Del

David published a chapter on Marquardt, who was thought to have been killed on 1st May 1945 by his comrades. Tanzer is a very obscure pilot, wounded in the Spring of 1943 he seems to not return to combat until 1945 with IV./JG 51, though he was wounded only in a hand. Both get mentions in another IV./JG 51 pilots flugbuch, just one small mention for Tanzer, but it proves he was actually flying in 1945, and mentions as witness to several of Marquardt's claims and the number of each claim.

Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27th June 2018, 17:15
Teresa Maria's Avatar
Teresa Maria Teresa Maria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 547
Teresa Maria is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

This is what DeZeng and Stankey say about Kurt Tanzer:
TANZER, Kurt. (DOB: 01.11.20 in Moscow /USSR (or Reichenberg?)). (R, DKG). 1940 entered the Luftwaffe. 18.03.42 assigned to 12./JG 51 on completion of training. 02.08.42 Gefr., 12./JG 51.
13.09.42 Uffz., 12./JG 51. 16.12.42 Uffz., 12./JG 51. 05.01.43 Uffz., 12./JG 51. 06.01.43 Fw., 12./JG 51. 15.02.43 awarded Ehrenpokal. 10.04.43 Fw., 12./JG 51. 06.05.43 Ofw., 12./JG 51 severely WIA -Fw 190 A-4 (Blue 7) damaged in combat with Il-2s S of Orel. 24.06.43 Fw., awarded DKG, 12./JG 51.
11.43 returned to operations following convalescence and assigned to Stabsstaffel/JG 51. 05.12.43 Ofw.,
awarded Ritterkreuz for prior service in 12./JG 51. 1944 trf to JFS 6. 06.44 trf to Stab/Jagdfliegerführer 6 and then Jagdfliegerführer Ostpreussen. 02.45 promo to Lt.d.R. 10.02.45 Lt., appt Staka 13./JG 51.
02.05.45 Lt., 13./JG 51 lost Fw 190 D-9 (White 1). Credited with 723 combat missions and 143 air victories (perhaps only 128?). Post war worked in a chemical factory. 16.06.57 joined the Bundesluftwaffe and was a Major by 1960. †25.06.60 in a T-33 crash in the Baleric Islands in the westernMediterranean during bad weather.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27th June 2018, 18:11
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 612
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
Hi Del

David published a chapter on Marquardt, who was thought to have been killed on 1st May 1945 by his comrades. Tanzer is a very obscure pilot, wounded in the Spring of 1943 he seems to not return to combat until 1945 with IV./JG 51, though he was wounded only in a hand. Both get mentions in another IV./JG 51 pilots flugbuch, just one small mention for Tanzer, but it proves he was actually flying in 1945, and mentions as witness to several of Marquardt's claims and the number of each claim.

Regards

Johannes
Interesting ..... Both the Kracker database and the Luftwaffe Career Summaries say Marquardt was shot down in combat with a Spitfire and became a US POW. Died 2003. Is there additional information?
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28th June 2018, 10:32
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brandenburg, Germany
Posts: 1,005
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Good morning Johannes & Co,

is it known who was the first to proclaim a Tanzer score of >100 ? And why ?

Kind regards,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28th June 2018, 12:42
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 875
Johannes is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Hi Guys

If my memory serves me correctly Tanzer got a cheap Ritterkreuz for being wingman to Oskar-Heinz Bär and Karl-Gottfried Nordmann, and after only thirty-five Russian "kills". Forget the 128 or 143, more like a minimum of thirty-five, but likely to have claimed additional Russian aircraft during 1945 having returned to combat on 10th February 1945. During the time between his wound on 6th May 1943 until 4th November 1943 he seems to have been recovering, then was with Jafü6 and Stab Jafü Ostpreussen, doing what I cannot say, but combat unlikely.
Just why such a large total has been attributed for him is hard to say, but no reason why it cannot be wrong, think of Günther von Fassong, and Franz-Walter Woidich attributed with 110, yet he himself has only eighty-two on his abschüsse list, and eighty-one are found on the mikofilms, which don't prevail into 1945 when he get a single claim, it is likely that Woidich didn't even know he had been attributed 110 claims......likewise Tanzer.

Kind Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29th June 2018, 13:22
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brandenburg, Germany
Posts: 1,005
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Good afternoon Johannes,

this in an interesting topic.
Can be hope for a publication of you about those aces who have been falsely attributed 100+ kills for various reason (but not due to overclaiming) ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30th June 2018, 09:56
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 875
Johannes is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Hi Michael

I could put something together. There are two aces that are likely to/or should join the "100" club, Paul-Hinrich Dähne and Ulrich Wohnert, Dähne almost certainly, in fact the total for him has been suggested to be "128", I have found the first ninety-nine, but then he was active after the mikrofilms end, Wohnert also active to the end, but some way off the "100" mark when the mikrofilms end.

Others included "unconfirmed" in their "100", some have the 100+ total that just cannot be accounted for.

Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30th June 2018, 10:32
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 710
Nick Hector is on a distinguished road
Re: Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

Hi Johannes,

Please correct me if I have it wrong, but to my eye it seems you already covered this aspect with your four-part "biographies and victory claims" series that you co-authored with John Foreman.

I say that because you did the noble thing of only including the victory claims that you could find in the microfilms and kept speculation to a minimum, so it's already clear that Tanzer's "accepted total" is highly questionable.

In all fairness, surely a 2nd edition of that (already quite good) series would be all that's needed?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CO list of Schlacht Gruppen, 39-45 - looking for assistance. Evgeny Velichko Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 15th November 2013 13:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net