Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th April 2012, 07:00
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
Posts: 2,979
Larry Hickey
Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Hello,

I'm seeing photos of the a/c, or information on his plane number during the 1940 Campaigns in France and the BoB of Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of 3./JG1 and, after July 5, 1940, 8./JG27, followed by his transfer to 9./JG27 during the BoB. Kageneck ended the BoB with 13 victories, the second highest scoring "ace" in III./JG27 for the period.

We have good info on the various aircraft flown by the unit's highest scoring ace, Oblt. Ludwig Frantzisket, who flew with 7 Staffel and scored 14 victories by the end of the BoB, and I'd like to do a color profile of von Kageneck's a/c as well. I have photos of a "Black 13" of 8 Staffel that may have force-landed on the beach near Querqueville, France, about 2 mi WNW of Cherbourg, on July 19, 1940. This may have been v. Kageneck's early BoB a/c, but none of the photos of which I'm aware show a scoreboard on this a/c that would help confirm that this is indeed his 109. Does anyone have a confirmed photo of his scoreboard late in the WC/FC or anytime during the BoB? Does anyone have confirmation that "Black 13" was his plane with 8 Staffel early in the BoB, or what his plane number was after he transferred to 9 Staffel?

Is there any possibility that his FB has survived and someone has a copy that would help me answer these questions?

Who can help?

Regards,
__________________
Larry Hickey
Eagles Over Europe Project Coordinator
http://airwar-worldwar2.com

Last edited by Larry Hickey; 2nd May 2012 at 03:15.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th April 2012, 12:28
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,305
Frank Olynyk is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Larry,
Are you aware of the biography of Erbo von Kageneck, by his brother August, titled Erbo, pilote de chasse? In French, soft cover, published by Perrin, in 1999 and reprinted in 2008.

Frank.
__________________
Civilization is the most fragile ecology of all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th April 2012, 18:41
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
Posts: 2,979
Larry Hickey
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Frank,

No I wasn't aware of this. Are there any photos of him or his aircraft during the 1940 period? Any indication that a diary or his FB from 1940 has survived.

Do you have a source where a copy of this bio might be obtained?

Regards,
__________________
Larry Hickey
Eagles Over Europe Project Coordinator
http://airwar-worldwar2.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30th April 2012, 20:22
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,305
Frank Olynyk is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Larry,
I cannot lay my hands on my copy of the book. It is not under K on the aces' bios shelf, which means it is in one of many piles on the floor.

However, it is readily available through the Internet. I usually search with addall.com, but it is also on ABEBooks.com. I think at prices ranging from $1 to $60, and maybe higher.

Enjoy!

Frank.
__________________
Civilization is the most fragile ecology of all.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30th April 2012, 21:37
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
Posts: 2,979
Larry Hickey
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Thanks Frank,

We'll find it.

Regards,
__________________
Larry Hickey
Eagles Over Europe Project Coordinator
http://airwar-worldwar2.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 1st May 2012, 09:25
leonventer leonventer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 273
leonventer is on a distinguished road
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Hi Larry,
Quote:
Are there any photos of him or his aircraft during the 1940 period?
No photos of his 1940 mounts, unfortunately. There is a photo of him and a couple of schwarze Männer in front of a Bf 109E in Sicily in May 1941. It carries a white (or maybe yellow) 5 on the nose. The rudder is cropped, so only 7 victory bars can be seen (in two rows.)

There is another picture of him next to a Bf 109E rudder in Russia in July 1941, but I can't tell if it's the same machine. This one has 38 bars in 5 rows, of which 18 are topped with roundels and 20 with stars.

Quote:
Any indication that a diary or his FB from 1940 has survived.
My French bites, but I did a quick scan of the text and did not see any evidence that his Flugbuch was used as a source --there are few dates, no times, no Werkenummer or aircraft codes, etc. The author doesn't list any sources, and there's no index with listings of victories, promotions, transfers, locations, etc.

Sorry I couldn't be the bearer of better news.

Regards,
Leon Venter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 1st May 2012, 20:23
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
Posts: 2,979
Larry Hickey
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Hello Leon,

Thanx for checking the French bio for me. This doesn't sound like it will be a very productive resource for hard historical facts. Will still try to locate a copy. It's possible that "Yellow 5" would have been his plane code from the time that he joined that unit during the mid-BoB, through May, 1941, but that is pure speculation.

In the meantime, I'm hoping that there is still other information out there on his career and the a/c that he flew during 1939-40.

Regards,
__________________
Larry Hickey
Eagles Over Europe Project Coordinator
http://airwar-worldwar2.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd May 2012, 03:12
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
Posts: 2,979
Larry Hickey
Re: Looking for 1940 info WC/FC or BoB on Oblt Graf Erbo von Kageneck of I./JG1 and III./JG27

Hello,

Chris Simmonds reminded me that we have photos of a "Yellow/Brown 5" from 9./JG27 FL in about 8.40 during the BoB. Unfortunately this does not show any victory tabs, and probably pre-dates by a short time, v. Kageneck transferring from 8 to 9 Staffel. Since this carries no victory tabs on the tail, this is probably not his a/c. We also have several photos of "Black13" during the WC/FC and later during the BoB, again with no discernible scoreboard on the tail. This gives no support for these showing Kageneck's a/c.

So we're still on the hunt.

Regards,
__________________
Larry Hickey
Eagles Over Europe Project Coordinator
http://airwar-worldwar2.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net